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Primary education

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Teacher humiliated my son in front of classmates and parents!

295 replies

FrayedNerves · 18/06/2013 02:07

My son (6) was found swinging on a low tree branch at school during pickup time last week and (I was there but didn't see him doing it as i was dealing with my other lo) a teacher screamed at the top of her voice for him to get down... He of course immediately stopped what he was doing and came to her. Now this is where my problem is... She proceeded to humiliate and intimidate him by shouting in his face in front of all his classmates and parents. She was about 2' away from him and RANTED at him for an unnecessarily long time. He didn't cry (god knows I would have) but told me afterwards he was scared of her and felt his knees shaking.

The next day he didn't want to go to school and was upset several times in the night (nightmares). My issue is not that she reprimanded my son but that she proceeded to humiliate and intimidate him in the process, she just went on and on like she was trying to make him cry... I was so shocked and upset I couldn't say a word to her and just grabbed my children and left, if I had confronted her at that time I would have ripped her head off and would have been way too emotional. I now feel like I should have stepped in and I have failed him, I can't stop crying with the guilt! and I can't sleep.

I have reported this teacher to the school and when they asked what I wanted to achieve from my complaint, I said I wanted her to apologise to him for humiliating and intimidating him... They just looked at me like 'you want what?!' am I being unreasonable to request that from a person in a position of trust? My son has long term confidence issues of which the school is aware of and this incident has been very damaging. I don't think they will do anything about it...

Any advice on what else I can do? This teacher has been reported before. Thanks so much.

OP posts:
lottieandmia · 18/06/2013 13:10

learnandsay - why do you think slapping is not abuse?

How do you define abuse?

There seems to be a prevailing attitude that there are things that are ok to do to a child, which obviously wouldn't be ok for one adult to do to another. I don't think that makes any sense.

learnandsay · 18/06/2013 13:11

I don't think that.

TheFallenNinja · 18/06/2013 13:11

I believe the distance from the child given by the OP was 2'

Hardly, in your face.

MaryKatharine · 18/06/2013 13:12

Yes, TheBirds, of course I was serious! Have you never been talking to your child's teacher and your toddler is behind you and falls over because he's stood on a rock? (Example of my own from yesterday)
You generally know where they are but you don't have your eyes on them every second. Or do you generally have a conversation with a teacher without looking at them at all?

lottieandmia · 18/06/2013 13:13

Sorry learnand say - I meant to address that to TheBirds.

delboysfileofax · 18/06/2013 13:13

There is no way this teacher shouted in the child's face in the playground as the OP described. No way. Other parents would have complained as well. It was so bad the kid had nightmares, and she couldn't sleep herself? Not over egging it at all there

delboysfileofax · 18/06/2013 13:16

Really? it's now being compared to the Nigella incident? How in the name of Zeus' cock is it the same as an assault? Seriously.

ProphetOfDoom · 18/06/2013 13:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sonlypuppyfat · 18/06/2013 13:17

One of my friends trained to be a school teacher I asked her when she was doing her sarcasm course as I found most teachers liked to humiliate, this was when I was at school and just the same for my DC's.

lottieandmia · 18/06/2013 13:18

delboys - you weren't there. How could you possibly know what happened?

Or do you think teachers are beyond reproach? MaryKatharine, who was a teacher herself has just said that she has seen teachers behave like this. I have too and I have heard a number of personal things said in the staff room about children that should not have been said.

daftdame · 18/06/2013 13:18

I have not read all of the thread but I do believe some teacher's ideas about discipline are ...ahem... questionable.

Not that it is a bad as the old days, but then as a culture we don't condole corporal punishment any more...(see thread below).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/1309534-Weird-things-your-teachers-did-which-they-would-be-fired-for-today

I think some teachers do genuinely think the 'shouty' approach works, it may to some degree, probably this approach,

"The day will come when you need them to respect you even fear you a little" (Ibid.p600)

But then would you rather rule through love or fear?

Annanon · 18/06/2013 13:18

Op I can see the point you were trying to make. It was not that he was told off that upset you, but how it was done.

It is a completely normal parental instinct to be upset when you witness someone shouting at your child. Any adult, especially a teacher, literally shouting in a child's face, and calling them 'stupid' an 'idiot' or any other form of name calling is completely unacceptable.

You have not failed him in any way. You removed him from the situation at the time. You did the sensible thing by not reacting in an overly emotional way. Walking away from confrontations when your children are with you, is the best approach. I admire you for holding your composure.

From how you describe the incident, the teacher displayed to everyone that she cannot control her temper or articulate herself in an appropriate manor. Screaming in the face of a young child is intimidating, unprofessional and immature. An adult calling a young child 'stupid' or an 'idiot' is never justifiable. Your son may well have needed to be told off for climbing on the tree, but she handled it poorly and resorting to name calling is ridiculous, bullying, behaviour.

I think it is completely reasonable to complain in writing to the HT to let them know that you found this teacher's behaviour intimidating and unacceptable and to request a follow-up meeting to discuss your complaint. You need to find out if there were witnesses and ask them to complain as well. This teacher lost her temper/self control in front of all the children and was setting a terrible example of how to behave in school / deal with disagreements. It's tricky, as I doubt you can expect an apology, directly to your son, but I don't see how any school could justify calling a child stupid or an idiot, within any discipline policy. The outcome of the complaint that I would be looking for would be a meeting with the HT & teacher in question to discuss what forms of discipline I could expect while my child was a pupil at the school. I would also want some reassurance that the school does not accept teachers calling pupils names, even if they weren't willing to admit that it actually happened on this occasion.

I would let your DS know that he mustn't climb the tree again and that if he misbehaves at school he will be told off, with your permission. I would praise him for discussing how it made him feel, with you. I would also reassure him that he shouldn't feel embarrassed or scared, because everyone gets told off or shouted at, at some point. Ask him to think of times when his friends have been told off before, but they were fine afterwards. However, I would also let him know that, while the teacher was right to tell him off, she was wrong to call him names, and that you have told the HT.

TheBirdsFellDownToDingADong · 18/06/2013 13:18

OK. I am not an abuse apologist. Namecheck me on any search under any of my 3 MN names (Bucharest/NotTreadingGrapes and this one) and you will see that I probably spend more time on Relationships saying LTB than anywhere else.

I have been thinking about this and am prepared to accept that my definition of abuse is wrong. Because maybe I see it as a sustained long term treatment of an individual rather than as a one off.

I still find it hard to believe the OP's version of events. The hysterical hyperbole reads like bad creative writing. And the history between this child and the teacher just makes me Hmm

TheBirdsFellDownToDingADong · 18/06/2013 13:19

lottieandmia, you weren't there either, were you?

daftdame · 18/06/2013 13:20

^ sorry realise there was no corporal punishment involved, just my attempts at analogy.

lottieandmia · 18/06/2013 13:20

'Really? it's now being compared to the Nigella incident? How in the name of Zeus' cock is it the same as an assault? Seriously.'

I refer to my earlier post. Abuse is abuse - whether it involves adults or children. You also haven't answered my question about whether you yourself would accept this treatment from another adult?

lottieandmia · 18/06/2013 13:21

I was not there but I choose to believe the OP instead of posting to call her a liar.

delboysfileofax · 18/06/2013 13:29

No abuse is not abuse. Shouting at someone is not the same as throttling them.

As for someone shouting in my face? Used to happen all the time at work. Never bothered me in the slightest.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen · 18/06/2013 13:29

I don't think OP is a liar, I think she saw her DS being scolded (yes, maybe even gasp shouted at)

I think OP feels her son was just, well, boys will be boys -Saw the expression on here, didn't being it up myself- And extremely overreacted when her 'spirited' little boy was told gasp enough is enough, time to stop putting yourself in dangerous situations.

I admire the OP's love for her son I(of course!!!) But she'll do him much better than teaching him 'boys CAN be boys' in this day and age.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 18/06/2013 13:31

Lottieandmia - I would like Delboysfilofax to answer that too. I'd also like to know if they consider screaming in someone's face to be appropriate discipline.

Delboysfilofax - I believe that verbal abuse is as unacceptable as physical abuse - do you not agree?

And I made the comparison with Nigella's situation, because you seemed to be saying that this boy deserved to be verbally abused by the teacher - do you think Nigella deserved to have Charles Saatchi's hands round her throat? One was verbal abuse, the other physical - but both do damage.

Also, if you don't believe the OP's description of events, I don't see how you can join the discussion - other than to call her a liar, which you have already (by implication) done. We are all discussing the situation based on the details we have been given - it goes without saying that, if the situation was radically different to that described, our responses would be different.

To answer your specific question - the OP has said she was too shocked to respond to this teacher at the time - maybe the other parents present were also too shocked to intervene?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 18/06/2013 13:34

SpecialAgent - shouting at someone only 2 inches from their face, when you are an adult and they are a small child, and calling them an idiot - which is what the OP has related - how is that acceptable in any situation? How is it a proportionate response to the child's behaviour?

Is that how YOU would have dealt with that child in that situation? Or with your own child in a similar situation? Do you shout in your child's face from a distance of only 2", and call them an idiot?

ReallyTired · 18/06/2013 13:35

You can watch the video where they use death to promote breastfeeding in India and realise it has been taken out of contex. Very poor indian mothers HAVE to breastfeed and if it doesn't work then their baby starves to death. (Formula is not an option)

www.breastcrawl.org/

Persauding hospitals to train their staff is different to propaganising western mothers.

learnandsay · 18/06/2013 13:35

No abuse is not abuse

heh?

TheBirdsFellDownToDingADong · 18/06/2013 13:35

Op says 2 foot from his face not 2 inches.

treaclesoda · 18/06/2013 13:36

I think I understand what the OP is saying too, that its not the telling off, its the nature of the telling off. I've been trying to put myself in the OP's shoes and the bottom line is that despite knowing sometimes that my DC need to be reprimanded, it really does sting if someone else gets in there first and does it before I can do it, and I immediately find myself thinking 'its not that bad, he/she didn't need snapped at like that'. But really, ultimately I'm to blame, because when I am present, I should be keeping them under close enough supervision that I am the first to notice if they step out of line. So its probably guilt that makes me feel like that. I think its the nature of motherhood. Its tricky.

I have no idea what happened at the school gates in this case obviously, and if the teacher was indeed so aggressive then I can see why the OP was upset. On the other hand, if the OP feels annoyed that the teacher spotted the misbehaving and tackled it, when she should have seen and tackled it herself, its easy to see why she might misinterpret the scolding as being bullying, and 'in his face'. So maybe the reality lies somewhere in between the two interpretations?

As an aside, I remember teachers like this from school, and remember thinking how wonderful it would be to be a grown up and not have someone scream in my face when I did the tiniest thing wrong. Little did I know that the world of work involves more screaming at and being publicly humiliated than I ever faced in fourteen years of school. Maybe it would have toughened me up to be screamed at a bit more at school, then it wouldn't have shocked me so much to discover that its a pretty common management style in the workplace Confused