Sorry, another reading one... how to stop DD from guessing

[Pozzled]

DD1 is in reception. Her reading has really taken off recently - her school don't use bookbands but she's somewhere around green level. The problem is that she is starting to guess unfamiliar words from the context rather than sounding out. Whenever she makes a mistake, I get her to use her phonics, but how can I get her to do this automatically? More phonics practice? Reading words out of context? Harder books so that she has to 'sound out' more often?

(Don't suggest I ask her teacher- the school would be quite happy for her to use mixed methods. I'm not.)

Clattypatty I don't understand your point about learning to read being more than just saying the words aloud. Are you saying that this is harder with phonics, or doesn't sit well with a phonics approach?

Of course learning to read also involves understanding a text, but in order to understand you must know what the words say. It seems pretty obvious to me that once you have established strong decoding skills, you can then build up the comprehension. If a child can't decode accurately, they are left with guesswork to try to get at the meaning.

I think where extended phonics teaching may be doing a bad job is where a child genuinely understands the rules but where a teacher's mind is fixed, they have to teach them all. Some may be picked up subconsciously or very quickly at least.

These children may be able to read everything in sight but must prove they know the rules. I suppose it is necessary to cover the bases though.

However this must be not done to the detriment of enjoying reading. I know it doesn't have to be but some of the reading schemes are incredibly dull.

mrz how are cases such as this tackled? I ask because I know you have talked about what a positive experience phonics can be.

Why do you feel patronised? genuine question

I'm not sure what you mean by extended phonics teaching daftdame ... as a school we teach phonics even in Y6 only by KS2 the emphasis is strongly on phonics for spelling.

Phonics is a good approach to reading text...
I haven't seen any words upthread that would exclude phonics teaching with the exception of Mr & Mrs

clattypatty, most people who visit these threads get told what to think. It's how this place works. Heaven forbid that you should have your own opinions!

In what way was it patronising? If you can't read the words you can't understand the text ...

It was pretty patronising, mrz.

All you needed to say was that wasn't what I said.

It can be ... why wouldn't a child learning phonics not also enjoy stories and poetry and the music and pattern of our language?

But can they enjoy it in their reading book? The best, even the simple ones do have this capacity, but a lot don't.

mrz I suppose this is in reference to class teaching and differentiation. I'm not a teacher so I'm trying to imagine the teaching, I wasn't taught synthetic phonics. My DC was / is but was taken out one year (KS1) to concentrate on comprehension. (I questioned this btw)

Would you just move to phonics in spelling type teaching?

All you needed to say was that wasn't what I said except that it wasn't replying to that post learnandsay so it would have been a rather silly thing to say.

Although isn't it glorious if it can be done hand in hand"

*Its not glorious if your child is dyslexic and can't cope with multiple methods. It is not glorious when a child is throughly confused by not knowing whether to use phonics, guess from the picture, use search lights, guess from context ...

Teaching a child requires patience. Lots of parents have hurry sickness and want to rush a child through the reading scheme without thinking whether they are ready for books.*

I think you misunderstand me. I was talking about learning phonics and comprehension/reading with meaning at the same time. Surely it is glorious if a child can do both even from the early stages?

well, you actually did already say it

quote
It isn't what I said clattypatty

Read the words accurately for accurate comprehension
endquote

You could have done without the patronising bit.

Ah, reading "clothes" instead of 'costume' would suggest to me that your DD's problem is her wish to be fast and uninterrupted (or just careless ). Or to be independent. Or reluctance to try something and get it wrong (ironically). A personality trait? Level of maturity?

I'm so glad you mentioned that most of the words in her reading books are known already - I had a picture of her slogging her way through her reading, forgetting the gist of the story while you explained which one of the 175 common ways to spell the sound was causing her problems!

Does she play the piano? You'll be telling her to practise SLOWLY twenty times a day

I believe this thred has bean a stawrm in a teecoup

Certainly it is possible for children to bark at print and not understand what is going on. Reading to children is every bit as important as a child practicing their reading. Children learn new vocabulary by hearing/ seeing the words being used in different context.

Often children who do not understand the text are limited by general language skills. A high quality pre school helps children develop language and learn about the world.

ReallyTired I only hope that wasn't in reference to us 'mythical creatures'. We certainly didn't 'bark' at print. Not saying it never happens but don't dismiss every early reader as that.

daftdame I teach using a linguistic phonics programme called Sounds-Write and decoding and spelling are taught in every lesson ... comprehension is part of reading sentences and text so children would not be taken out. In class I would differentiate phonics work by choice of words. In Y1 some children may still be working with cvc words while others would be working with polysyllabic words. Some may write independently others may need scaffolding.

Children taught whole words using flash cards ...barking at print ?

In my experience, relying on phonics only will help some dyslexic children but holds very able children back. Some children are blessed with the ability to look at a word once and remember how to pronounce and spell it.