'we said thanks to God today mummy!' Really??

[unexpectediteminbaggingarea]

Apparently a 'special lady' came and told my son and his class that God gave them a special gift so they should all say thank you to him. And they did.

Does this kind of shit go on everywhere? It's not a church school. I am an athiest. My son, aged 4, is now apparently not. He says that, thinking about it, he now thinks God is real and the reason you can't see him is because he 'lives in a different country, maybe London'.

I'm actually quite pissed off about it (not the London bit, that was funny), but if it's what happens everywhere or is some kind of statutory thing I suppose I'll have to suck it up. If it's not I may write to the head.

Although I do think more time on geography and less time on God might be better for DS .

made-up stories?

Stories that are not true?

what is acceptable terminoligy? Because if my DS is being told by a teacher that these things happened as fact then I want to be able to get across to him that while some people believe them they are not true.

Stories which some people believe are actually true although there is no evidence for this, while others believe the stories contain 'moral' truths. ?

Some 4-5 year olds may get this... it would be so much nicer not to have to get into this till later.

So what is acceptable, radical substitution? Myth?

I don't see why one needs to specify whether a story is literally true unless the child asks - do you explicitly say The Gruffalo is made up every time you read it?

I'm of the opinion that the word "

Ffs.

The word "myth" is loaded but inoffensive. The word "story" is neutral. Words/phrases such as "fairytale" or "load of tosh" are deliberately offensive as they imply that the stories are made up on purpose.

BUt nobody is ever going to tell my child that the Gruffalo is literal fact. People will tell my child that the Bible is. So I need to make sure they know it isn't before that happens.

I just told dd1 that there are stories that some people believe actually happened, other people don't, and others just don't know either way. She has had no problem understanding that from nursery age, really....and tbh I think its a good thing to talk about in generalities, as it covers all sorts of things other than religion (values, politics, 'rules' of human behaviour etc etc).

Her little sister seems to have absorbed that knowledge (re variety of beliefs and opinions in her community) by sheer osmosis. She is very wise

SGB - although there is plenty of evidence to support your opinion, it is still an opinion, and I would suggest it is more tolerant to use the word "story" than "bullshit" in the first instance.

seeker - in the context of school assembly, isn't school likely to tell the story of say Noah or Joseph without preamble, just as they might tell The Gruffalo or Sir Charlie Stinkysocks or whoever? I'd be amazed if they bothered to say "and by the way, this is a true story" but perhaps I have an unrealistic view of schools.

That's separate from the issue of being made to pray or worship within school, and something of a tangent, sorry.

How come it's OK for Christians to tell their children that God is real without having to also tell them that some people don't believe that and they can make up their own minds when they grow up, but atheists aren't allowed the same freedom? I've asked this a lot and nobody has ever answered.

I wasn't aware that was what Christians do seeker [puzzled]

That is exactly what I do seeker. We are Christians but encourage our dc to respect the beliefs of everyone be they Jews, Muslims, athiests or whatever. What we do NOT do is tell our dc that any view other than our own is "bullshit", "crap", "myths", "fairytales" or any of the other grossly offensive and abusive terms being thrown around by some people on this thread.

Seriously? it makes me so, so sad that people think it is ok to laugh, sneer and call my beliefs "bullshit" and actually think they have a legitimate right to do that. Really sad.

seeker, that isn't what this Christian family does either.

Although if you meant "why can Christians say it is true if atheists can't say it isn't true" then the answer is that you most certainly can say it isn't true, so long as you don't use offensive language to do so. "Just a story" gets the message across far less aggressively than "a load of old bullshit".

Autocorrect suggested "loaf of old bullshit" which I wouldn't like to spread jam on.

'Myth' - a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.

I fail to see what is derogatory or offensive there?

But I din't see why I should respect all beliefs. I'll respect people, and I'll
Avoid being rude if possible, but I really don't
See why I should respect beliefs.

Agree - I respect the right of a person to believe whatever they want, but no reason for me to respect their beliefs at all.

Do you respect the beliefs of the believers in the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

How come it's OK for Christians to tell their children that God is real without having to also tell them that some people don't believe that and they can make up their own minds when they grow up, but atheists aren't allowed the same freedom? I've asked this a lot and nobody has ever answered.

I have answered several times on several different threads! Of course I would tell them they could make up their own minds-and they did so-by the age of 8yrs! I never said that God was real in the first place. Who knows! It is a matter of faith. They know perfectly well that not everyone has faith and that people have other faiths.
The question that no one has answered for me is why does it matter if your DC thinks differently to you? Do you really think that you give birth and your DC doesn't have a completely free choice?

You might bring your DC into the world hoping they will be a Christian, vegetarian, labour voter-they might be an atheist, meat eating member of the conservative party-are you really going to let it alter your relationship?

I certainly don't have my adult views because my mother expected it and would have been disappointed if I had differed. She is an adult-she has to cope with it. I think that most DCs grow out of parroting 'my mummy says' by 8yrs.

But this is not how most Christians I know deal with it. Catholics, for example are under an obligation to bring their children up in the faith.

BUt nobody is ever going to tell my child that the Gruffalo is literal fact. People will tell my child that the Bible is

People do talk rot! I think that even a 6 yr old might have worked out that in Noah's Ark the lions would have eaten the zebra! I have never known the Bible produced as fact-it is the interpretation of people at the time. Genesis is presented in the same way-with lots of other creation stories e.g aborigine ones.

A boy in year 2 asked me once why a book of Bible stories was in the non-fiction section of the school library. I told him that was an interesting question and to go and ask the Literacy Co-ordinator.

Seeker - I think you also have to be a nominal christian to fully participate in council meetings and parliament, they have prayers each time they meet. Although I believe that this year Council meeting prayers were made optional. I'd love to know what they pray for? Guidance on planning applications?

Catholics, for example are under an obligation to bring their children up in the faith.

They may well do but it is a dismal failure! I only know lapsed Catholics or atheists who were brought up as Catholics-I don't know a single practising one.

You can bring up your DC however you like-it doesn't mean they will follow once they are old enough.

I'm quite prepared that my child might become an evangelical christian socialist and I'll just have to deal with it.

What I object to is her being taught at school that god and Jesus are fact when there is no proof for the existence of either.

Would Christians, Muslims, insert faith of choice be happy if there children were taught that there is no god and what their parents believe is wrong and had to sing songs or say prayers along the lines of there being no God?

Because that is what it feels like to us.

Having had a lot of problems at school myself because I openly expressed my lack of belief at a very young age, I'd hoped to spare my daughter the same problems by avoiding the subject. Instead I'm having to console a child who is terrified that God will kill her mummy and daddy in a flood... what a lovely story Noah is... and so meant I had to explain that God is only pretend.

Lee, many councils have already done away with prayers years ago - although local mayors often bring their 'spiritual advisors' with them!

What I object to is her being taught at school that god and Jesus are fact when there is no proof for the existence of either.

I really don't think this happens-unless maybe it is a church school. It is all to do with faith-there are no facts.
How many people ask the right questions before they send them?
It seems very slap dash to assume there are secular schools when there are not any.

People also assume that DCs sit there like porridge, taking things in without question! Luckily they don't-they have many an interesting discussion. I have had a 7 yr old in a church school say 'and this leads us to ask whether there is a God' and we had a very interesting class discussion. People seem to massively underestimate their DCs-they are not as stupid as you make out.