Teaching Creationism in school

[StuntNun]

On Friday my DS1 (9) and DS2 (5) both came home with a booklet called The Story of Creation from an external group who have been running a bible club in the school for the past few weeks. This tract has rung alarm bells with myself and DH on both religious and scientific grounds. It gives ideas such as the earth being 6,000 years old, states that the moon 'hangs on nothing' completely neglecting the effect of gravity, says there were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark and describes evolution as impossible. It also talks about original sin, blood sacrifice and the story of Cain and Abel, none of which I regard as being appropriate for Primary School age children.

My oldest son laughed at the 6,000 years old idea because he knows about fossils, but the eight-year-old girl next door is very concerned about original sin. She can't understand why she was born with sin in her heart. I also worry that these dogmatic Creationist statements could lead to a crisis of faith if children take them to heart but then go on to learn about evolution in high school.

We have written a letter to the school asking whether the Principal knew the content of the booklet before it was given out but are not sure of the next action to take, and whether we need to make a complaint to the school, the Board of Governers, the education board or the Department for Education. Does anyone have any advice on how to tackle this subject? We feel that the booklet is completely unsuitable and should not have been given out at school.

I would start with the HT then proceed to governors if not satisfied. Is it a faith school? Do the school back the claims made in the booklet? I would be extremely unhappy if my children came home with that.

I would be extremely unhappy and worried. Defo HT at the very least, and an apology letter out to all parents. Bible club needs to stop if this is their hidden agenda. If not satisfied then escalate to governors and lea?

You let your children go to a bible group and then are concerned on religious grounds when they teach creationism?

Bible group does not have to teach creationism. There are other lessons to be learned from the bible that do not necessarily go against scientific knowledge. Creationism is a special brand of religiosity, and should not be allowed to be taught in schools. In whatever guise, voluntarily attended or not.

I agree with everything you say, but still creationism (as a concept) is not inconsistent with the content of the bible.

So?

You are absolutely right to disagree with this. I think you have done the right thing in writing to the head. I guess the governors are next port of call. Whether or not you agree with these ideas, the school should have a transparent policy that people can either walk away from or argue with. Personally, as a scientist who also has a faith I find the whole thing odd. Why are some concerned with making science and religion in opposition? They serve different agendas. I would no more ridicule my GP for trying to help people, than I would my priest for trying to help people. They are both lovely people. Extremism at both ends of these spectra are sour.

If your children are going to attend bible club, you have to be prepared to discuss creationism with them, tbh.

Presumably the club is opt in/ out.

Ds1 first asked about creationism v evolution at 6. It usually goes hand in hand with dinosaur projects and Christmas, all good solid yr 1 stuff. Kids aren't daft.

It is a slightly alarming that this seems too doctrinal for this age group, but presumably you all knew which particular 'external' group were running the bible club before your children toddled along, and were able to guess content accordingly.

I visited a colony where evolution was not taught at all. Just creationism. All things in balance, and children can discuss at home and make up their own minds.

I'm no scientist but I think the issue is that there is physical evidence to support the notion of evolution which also proves that the earth is not 6000 years old. I went to a CofE school and worked in a RC school and in both cases creation in the bible was taught in the context of "creation stories" from many cultures. I don't think the version of creation being peddled by the group the OP describes has any place in a school. The HT should have checked the content of the club before allowing it to go ahead.

OP are you in the UK? Just wondering as you mention "Principle" and "Board of Education".

Creationist theory can include evolution theory so any Bible group/club/whatever teaching different is very suspect imo.

Thanks for all your comments peeps. HiveofBees I have no problem with the bible club teaching Creationism as a bible story. My issue is that the author has piggy-backed his own ideas, for example the age of the earth, into a story that does not contain them in the bible. The calculation of 6,000 years comes from adding all the ages of the people in the bible up until the birth of Christ then adding 2,000 years on to that. It is not mentioned in Genesis at all. Creationism vs evolutionary theory is a matter that people debate: discussing creationism should mention that there is a different school of thought; evolution should not be taught in a way that mocks the bible. It is up to my children to assess the evidence they are presented and make up their own minds and I would prefer them to have a balanced input with which to do so.

CodandChops I am in Northern Ireland where the HT is usually referred to as the Prinicipal and the local group that deals with education is the North Eastern Education and Library Board.

A group that runs a bible club is unlikely to be teaching a creation "story" IME. I think the action you take us to withdraw your children and write a letter to the principal explaining why.

"Creationism vs evolutionary theory is a matter that people debate."

No it isn't.

There is no possible debate to be had between the scientific theory of evolution and young earth creationism.

This is extreme religious fundamentalism being pushed at primary school children, and I would be furious.

Furious to the point of finding a better school.

At as old as 14 or 15, I believed in creationism. I remember having a formal debate in class about it, and arguing very strongly, with lots of arguments taken from books my parents owned. (We "won" the debate, but that doesn't mean we were right, of course, just better prepared!)

As an adult, I can now look back and think how silly I was to believe this guff.

So, don't worry that it will do your DCs lasting harm.

You can use it a springboard to discuss this interesting philosophical question with them, and get them thinking for themselves. (Something some religious people don't like!)

By all means notify the head, as parents and teachers may need to be prepared for the discussions that this leaflet will inevitably raise.

I would consider a teenager who believed in young-earth creationism a ridiculous embarrassment and a clear example of lasting harm.

The only interesting philosophical discussion to have about this kind of crap is how such implausible bullshit has managed to get itself promoted to the position of "the other side" in an imagined balanced debate between two different, but equally valid, viewpoints.

Teaching children that there are there are more than "two sides" to every story, and that not all "sides" are equally valid can be done with more interesting material than rubbish about the earth being younger than Stonehenge.

It's a dreadful thing to be suggesting to children. My DS in a Catholic school has obviously been told about creation but it has been taught in the context of evolution.
Creationists need to look at the history regarding the Book of Genesis and the theories behind when it was written. I suppose though that asking them to do this would be a waste of breath and time.

Stunt nun - the young earth / it being 6,000 years old is not the author 'piggy backing' his own views onto creationism, but is a pretty standard belief of the Creationists. And yes, it is done by adding up all the ages of all the people from Jesus to Adam.

Most creationists come up with a date somewhere between 6 and 10,000 years old.

Everything you have said is pretty standard belief for creationists - I don't think there is anything unique there ... Or put it this way, everything you have written I remember looking at when I studied the creationist debate during my theology degree. It's pretty standard stuff really.

try looking at www.venganza.org/

needless to say i would be horrified. i would also read the god delusion and quote it to the teachers who think otherwise.

See here for more on that topic.

Proving that there are some things that you just have to have faith in

" You can?t go around deciding that some relatively commonplace and historically important religious views are invalid and should never even be mentioned."

Young-earth creationism is neither relatively commonplace, nor historically important.

You might as well have debates about whether the earth goes around the sun.

Of course you might need to mention the existence of fundies who believe in that crazy shite, but there is no need to treat it as anything but the obvious idiocy it is.

It is part of the creationist agenda to present themselves as "just another view" of history, worthy of debate. It is not. It is such total and utter nonsense that it has absolutely no place in a school environment, not even as an optional bible club.

Thanks again for all your comments. I don't want to get into an argument about Creationism vs evolution. I respect that other people have different opinions to my own and I want my kids to receive balanced and reasoned information about both 'sides'. Personally I have no trouble reconciling belief in God with our knowledge of evolution. My issue in this matter is that my children were given a one-sided document presenting Creationism as unarguable fact by the school. And this booklet also contains information on religious topics such as blood sacrifice and original sin that are not appropriate for very young children. It states that feeling like you wanting to kill someone is the same, in God's eyes, as actually committing murder. This is a difficult concept for anyone to come to grips with and I certainly don't want my children to be wrestling with concepts like this at their age.

"I have no problem with the bible group teaching creationism as a bible story"

Creationism is not a bible story, it is a 20th century invention with a political agenda.

I agree that creationism is not "another view " of history. But children need to learn that not everyone believes the same things that they believe in. IMHO they also need to be taught to question what they are told.

My parents taught me about creationism. But I learned to question that teaching.

Being dogmatic, whether about religion, or science is, well, unscientific by definition. In that a scientist will never take anything as a given. Haven't there recently been results from the Hadron collider which appeared at first to undermine Einstein? Doesn't the Bertrand Russell paradox appear to undermine the foundations of mathematics?