Teaching Creationism in school

[StuntNun]

On Friday my DS1 (9) and DS2 (5) both came home with a booklet called The Story of Creation from an external group who have been running a bible club in the school for the past few weeks. This tract has rung alarm bells with myself and DH on both religious and scientific grounds. It gives ideas such as the earth being 6,000 years old, states that the moon 'hangs on nothing' completely neglecting the effect of gravity, says there were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark and describes evolution as impossible. It also talks about original sin, blood sacrifice and the story of Cain and Abel, none of which I regard as being appropriate for Primary School age children.

My oldest son laughed at the 6,000 years old idea because he knows about fossils, but the eight-year-old girl next door is very concerned about original sin. She can't understand why she was born with sin in her heart. I also worry that these dogmatic Creationist statements could lead to a crisis of faith if children take them to heart but then go on to learn about evolution in high school.

We have written a letter to the school asking whether the Principal knew the content of the booklet before it was given out but are not sure of the next action to take, and whether we need to make a complaint to the school, the Board of Governers, the education board or the Department for Education. Does anyone have any advice on how to tackle this subject? We feel that the booklet is completely unsuitable and should not have been given out at school.

I know your children are only young but surely all you need do is explain the other point of view and tell them that sometimes grown ups don't agree what is right and what is wrong.

Are you going to never let them hear any differing opinions on religion, politics, life in general?

Our children were brought up from any early age to understand that people often have differing opinions and when they were grown up they could make their own mind up. I know they are very young but it isn't a hard concept to put across to them.

I'd usually stand up for after school clubs such as this, but this one?

For a start, as well as being a load of narrow tosh, the wording on the leaflet Grimma posted is for some bizarre reason in 16th century language. Fabulous, let's reinforce the fundie nutter status by using KJV obscure quotes to convince children to convert.

[and I say this as a committed Christian who believes in creation AND evolution. Alongside each other!]

OP yanbu to approach the school.

How is DH feeling now StuntNun? What a difficult position. It's all a bit scary.

I don't get the gripe. If this club is optional and you chose to send your child to it, I don't see an issue with it (however, see below). Creation myths taught as such are perfectly fine in my opinion. and I say this as an atheist. As long as it isn't presented as science, it seems fine to me.

AFAIK, Genesis is in the old testament. Seems appropriate and predictable material for a bible club. As for the sin/blood, that does seem inappropriate for a 5 year old. They should be asked to tone that down.

I should clarify my above remark. Clearly, the OP has an issue with this club (referring to my comment "I don't see an issue with it.") Surely if you don't agree with the teaching material from it, you can either approach the people running the club and ask them to change their material or withdraw your child from the club.

"Creation myths taught as such are perfectly fine in my opinion. and I say this as an atheist. As long as it isn't presented as science, it seems fine to me."

This is such a pernicious line of argument.

The idea that knowledge exists as discrete subjects, and that it's fine to treat each subject as unrelated to the others is silly.

The subjects taught at school are just convenient categories.

These leaflets were not teaching a creation myth.

They were teaching children that the earth is 6000 years old. As a fact. When it is not a fact, but a piece of blatant nonsense.

How anyone can believe that it is OK to teach stupid rubbish to children as long as it is not "presented as science" is beyond me.

If it is being presented as true, then it must have some claim to truth (of which there are many) and not just be the crazy reality-denying delusions of some small groups of fundamentalists.

No school should allow their pupils to be handed material like this or give people who peddle it access to young and impressionable minds.

The Pricipal's response is very far from being what would be acceptable to me as the parent of children under her care for part of the week.

Actually the bible club itself seemed to be completely appropriate and the children really enjoyed it. Our only objection is the handing out of the Story of Creation tract which was the authors ideas on young earth, sin, evolution being "impossible", dinosaurs on the ark, all dressed up in a biblical wrapping. I am not religious myself but I don't think it is appropriate for someone to subvert the bible for their own creationist agenda.

@AThingInYourLife: Subject names aren't just convenient labels.
There is a huge difference between science, religion and social
sciences.

When I was in school we were taught about the greek myths, and I
remember thoroughly enjoying it. If Christian creation myths are
presented in the same way, i.e. as having no connection to reality but
as fun and interesting stories about how we once thought things came
about, that is great. It is a factual statement that some Christians
think the earth is 6000 years old.

But the other point is that this isn't the school presenting this. It

is an outside group and participation in the group is voluntary (if I
am wrong about this, do call me out). We can't and shouldn't hold
such groups to the same standard as we would a school (or, we should
be holding our schools to a higher standard). If what they present is
appropriate for kids, fun and mildly educational, and participation is
voluntary, then let them have a go. If clubs are only allowed to
present things that are supported by science, then pretty much every
religious group will have to self censor on some of their basic tenets
(i.e. belief in God(s)/virgin birth etc).

"If it is being presented as true, then it must have some claim to
truth (of which there are many) and not just be the crazy
reality-denying delusions of some small groups of fundamentalists.

No school should allow their pupils to be handed material like this or
give people who peddle it access to young and impressionable minds."

It is being presented as true by a certain group, not the school. By

the OPs own admission the group had some value to it, so you have to
take the good with the bad in this case. Groups and people of all
stripes make all sorts of outrageous claims, and creation stories
being true are among them. It's a part of life, and learning how to
call people out on stupid claims is a good skill.

This seemed like a simple misunderstanding until you had the feedback from the principal. Now I think this speaks volumes about her. Her assertion that this teaching is in line with the curriculum is surely false. I would certainly try to seek out some advice on that and without escalating too far (to the point that the issue starts to seriously impact your childrens' experience at the school), kindly let her know that you want her to think before she comes back with such sweeping statements again.

Tangointhenight Fri 25-May-12 20:13:45
"I'm sorry but all the Christians I know, and thats quite a lot, believe in creationism, hec its there in black and white in genesis, but then again a lot if so calmed Christians pick and choose what suits them from the bible."

Most Christians, in Europe at least, do not believe in Creationism (which is a term used for the whole concept evolution-didn't-happen, the-Earth-is-only-6000-years-old; the-dinosaurs-never-happened); they believe that God created the earth through evolution which is a totally different thing. The latter is the official take of both the Catholic church and the mainstream Protestant churches.

And I have yet to meet an Evangelical Christian who does not apply an allegorical interpretation to the Song of Songs or some of the more aggressive hymns of King David; but for some reason they don't like it when other Christians do the same to the book of Genesis- that for some reason is picking and choosing.

Ah I see Stuntnun. So they toned it all down for the club itself but then handed out objectionable tracts - probably not written by the club leaders themselves?

Does this lead to a way forward for the school? could you go back and ask school to ask the leaders to carry on just as they are but not hand out the materials as they conflict with the national curriculum?

Then it puts the club leaders on the spot rather than allowing them to feel like victims (which they will be itching to do).

We've had some resolution on this issue. After the Principal had originally said that she endorsed the Story of Creation booklet, DH had a meeting with her and pointed out the more obvious errors and the inappropriate religious content. She has now withdrawn her support and is finding out for us how we can make a complaint further up the system. Thanks to everyone for your interest and comments.

Oh well done your DH! Hope it goes well further up the chain!