Teaching Creationism in school

[StuntNun]

On Friday my DS1 (9) and DS2 (5) both came home with a booklet called The Story of Creation from an external group who have been running a bible club in the school for the past few weeks. This tract has rung alarm bells with myself and DH on both religious and scientific grounds. It gives ideas such as the earth being 6,000 years old, states that the moon 'hangs on nothing' completely neglecting the effect of gravity, says there were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark and describes evolution as impossible. It also talks about original sin, blood sacrifice and the story of Cain and Abel, none of which I regard as being appropriate for Primary School age children.

My oldest son laughed at the 6,000 years old idea because he knows about fossils, but the eight-year-old girl next door is very concerned about original sin. She can't understand why she was born with sin in her heart. I also worry that these dogmatic Creationist statements could lead to a crisis of faith if children take them to heart but then go on to learn about evolution in high school.

We have written a letter to the school asking whether the Principal knew the content of the booklet before it was given out but are not sure of the next action to take, and whether we need to make a complaint to the school, the Board of Governers, the education board or the Department for Education. Does anyone have any advice on how to tackle this subject? We feel that the booklet is completely unsuitable and should not have been given out at school.

I don't mind my children learning that some people are Creationist. I don't mind them having a talk by a Creationist, prefaced by "this is what this guy believes"

But I seriously object to anyone telling schoolchildren "Christians believe in Creationism" because that's just a flat lie, especially in this country. My DCs would not be converted to either Christianity or Creationism by such a statement, but it would tend to make them think that all Christians are idiots, which is not something I want to encourage, and it might make their self-identified Christian classmates (of which there are many) think that they ought to be Creationists.

Apologies for slightly OT rant, but I've seen this happen in schools where they get some random nut in to do Christian teaching and agnostic teachers fail to understand why this is a problem.

I had a quick look at their website. They're basically an organisation which wants to evangelise children. Well, opinions will vary as to whether thats a good or very bad thing.

A quote 'We are passionate about presenting the truth of the Bible to children' - but they are presenting their interpretation of the Bible as Truth. I'm afraid that the way the OP is describing it, their 'truth' includes much which is simply, factually, untrue.

Filling children's minds with notions such as Original Sin is even worse - this group need challenging.

Stuntnun, how was the 'bible class' presented to you? Were they upfront about their agenda? Anyway, good for you to be taking this up with the school authorities - good luck!

Tiggytape, your post of 12.44 is very reasonable and I can't disagree. However, the reason for teaching only moderate or mainstream views of religion is I think totally acceptable in primary school, simply because of the age of the children. I don't see the need to teach them about extremism. As a part of a critical thinking or history topic, extremism would be much more suitable topic in secondary school.

Original Sin is a basic Christian concept though, surely?

I understand "original sin" to mean that the human race as a whole are sinful rather than an individual "you are sinful" (I am not sinful - well not always ).

That is how I explain it and what it means to me.

I don't seem to remember my Sunday school banging on about Original Sin.

Here is one of this group's 'tracts'. Maybe a child with a christian upbringing might not be too bothered, but for some its going to be frightening gobbledegook.

My DH and I would hit the roof.

Its forcing any religion down a child's' throat.

Indoctrinate them when they're young! There's nothing quite like terrifying children into believing in a God.

You sound calmer than I would be.

And DH and I are atheists. No religion in our house at all.

Hmmm, I understand it to mean that we are all sinful, not just some other people over there.

Teaching children about the diverse range of beliefs in our world is certainly necessary. However, this particular group doesn't seem to subscribe to this view: 'One Way'

And what I mean by that is that if religious is as powerful as it is, time shouldn't be an issue. Age shouldn't be an issue. Aside from creationism being completely incorrect and original sin being something that children CAN'T comprehend, why a child can't be born "innocent" and at the age of 18, they decide which religion appeals to them?

Why should a child be forced to believe in something? By the time I was 10 and my DH was 8, we'd both cut so many holes in the idea of Christianity that we are against the idea of brainwashing.

When I was young, I literally thought there was a God to help me. There isn't. And because of that, I developed an issue with myself - that God wouldn't help or talk to me. The bible cannot be explained correctly to a child.

It's like expecting them to understand why we create Santa for them. Although, they get that. It's for positive reinforcement.

In what way is a child sinful? When you look at a newborn, that bundle of reflexes, how is it sinful? And what is sin?

It's social control, that's what it is.

+1 to AboutLastNight

It's brainwashing children. So that by the time you're an adult, you're too scared of the repercussions of actually thinking and questioning and deciding there are alternative routes

I hope Stuntnun will complain to the school, armed with the information on these links, and succeeds in stopping this bible group being run by this "Hope for Youth".

What is your course of action stuntnun?

Never mind the theology, I'm not sure how they get the tract with this gem in it past the school gates: 'Rugby is really a sport for boys although sometimes girls like to play rugby.'

Hold the front page, dinosaurs found alive in Northern Ireland!

Sounds like a pretty accurate description of rugby to me.

Although I prefer "rugby is a game for gurriers played by gentlemen."

Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden = GOLF

Same there too

here is a link to them talking about what they do

vimeo.com/24043755

I find this so sad - the people involved believe so much in what they are doing. If only their energy could go somewhere else.

Original Sin is a tenet of mainstream Christianity. However Creationism (i.e young earth) is not.

As an Evangelical Christian I would be very upset to receive such a booklet home. Personally i believe God created the world by the method of evolution. (I am also a scientist and see no conflict).

A baby is NOT sinful but the human race as a whole are. That's my understanding of it all.

I think the school will act on this complaint.

I also think that the leaders will treat this as a sign that they are suffering persecution ....

god it's so depressing.

however, we can at least stop the next generation being brainwashed this way.

PrematurelyAirconditioned has a good point. Creationism is not being presented as fringe or extreme to the children in the bible group, so they cannot possibly come to that conclusion themselves without other adults putting it into the context of mainstream christianity for them. Which may only happen when the children bring dubious booklets home and the parents actually read them. Stuntnun, you really have a job to do and stop these people teaching at your primary school.

lingle - oh yes. I expect they'll sorrowfully quote Luke 17:2 as well.

Excerpts:

"The world is only about 6,000 years old. We know this because the Bible, God's word tells us."
"In literally six days God spoke this whole world into existence."
"Have you ever wondered what holds the moon in the sky? It just hangs on nothing."
"As He spoke, all sorts of animals appeared everywhere; there were tall giraffes, massive elephants, buffalos as well as dinosaurs."
"Some people think we came from monkeys, but this is impossible! Monkeys have baby monkeys and human beings have baby human beings, every animal had baby animals after their own kind."
"As a result every person in the whole world, born after Adam and Eve, is born with original sin and will all die. All of us will die one day but we have a soul that will live on forever either with God in Heaven or with the devil in hell."
"Sometimes we can get so angry, we say we hate someone so much we could kill them. The Bible says this is like actual murder."
"To cover their sin, a lamb had to be sacrificed and its blood shed."
"In came the animals; monkeys, donkeys, horses, cows, sheep, lions, tigers, dogs, cats, giraffes, buffalos, dinosaurs and so on."
"The Flood actually started by the fountains of the deep opening up. This would imply huge volcanic activity. Large quantities of superheated steam and water would be sent at supersonic speed high into the atmosphere, and would then fall."

All quotes are exactly as given in the booklet.

"Some people think we came from monkeys, but this is impossible! Monkeys have baby monkeys and human beings have baby human beings, every animal had baby animals after their own kind."

This is exactly why these people should not be allowed in schools.

Blimey stuntnun that is dreadful, have they never read the theory about how the Book of Genesis was written? Clearly not!