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Original poster

Low Aspirations

294 replies

IndigoBell · 25/04/2012 19:28

Bloody hell I'm cross.

Why do teachers have such low aspirations?

How dare DDs teacher be happy with her attainment. Happy - as in rushed out of school to tell me how well she'd done in her latest test.

On track to almost get a C at GCSEs - and he's happy :(

I hate school. Every bit of it.

There is no expectation that children will do well - only that they'll make a set amount of progress each year.

Children are always told they're brilliant and wonderful - they're never told they're not doing well and they're actually going to have to work hard if they want to achieve something.

No expectations that a child will do well :(

The culture here sucks.

School thinks it's better to have a failing happy child - then a child who works hard :(

But because they make school so fun and engaging she refuses to let me take her out and teach her at home :(

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mrz · 28/04/2012 19:08

MadameChinLegs they use the Foundation Stage profile data to predict GCSE level Hmm

Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/04/2012 19:09

She is determined to be an olympic / professional athlete, and trains quite hard.

Luckily her sport doesn't require a ridiculous amount of training at this age - although that will increase as she gets older.

The sports academy has loads of potential Olympic athletes go to it. The whole school day is early (8:30 - 2:30) so that they have plenty of time to train. They even do their hw in school instead of break so they can train after school.

And they're happy for you to miss school to compete, etc.

The experience of being surrounded by serious athletes working really hard is very tempting....

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 28/04/2012 19:14

Mrz - the 'paperwork' is all computerised.

Well done your DD in the athletics dept, IB.

mrz · 28/04/2012 19:15

wow I'm impressed

MadameChinLegs · 28/04/2012 19:17

SOrry Mrz, is the Hmm at me for not knowing that or the school for doing that?

Feenie · 28/04/2012 19:17

You must be so proud of her, Indigobell! Smile

mrz · 28/04/2012 19:24

No it's for the government MadamChinLegs ...

MadameChinLegs · 28/04/2012 19:25
Grin
Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/04/2012 19:25

I'm incredibly proud of her :)

But of course it's far too early to tell her if she'll remain competitive as she gets older.

And Even Olympic athletes need to be able to read and write :)

(while we're on the subject of boasting about my kids - did I tell you guys that my DS (aged 11) made his political debut last week with a speech at one of the London mayor election rallies!

The socialist party has perhaps a slightly lower standard of speaker than the mainstream parties Grin)

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 28/04/2012 20:07

Isn't the biggest problem of all your dd's difference of opinion with you on the level of extra work which she should have to put in in order to be able to read and write to a reasonable level by the time she leaves primary school (and is she aware that you have this as some kind of psychological deadline)? Even at the age of 8 or 9, there comes a point where parental pressure, parental help and parental determination aren't enough and you need your child to want what you want for them, too, as much as you want it - and with a stubborn child, I have found, the more I put pressure on, the more my child digs in and opposes my efforts... Could this be the same with your dd - that when she feels the pressure getting too much, she digs in and starts, counterproductively, to resist your efforts, creating an exhausting battle of wills? It sounds to me as though your dd isn't convinced she has made enough progress to warrant the hard work she is putting in and extra attention she is getting, not when she can make half as much effort at sport and yet achieve so well with that. It may be true that your dd not learning to read and write will blight her future, but that doesn't mean giving her this impression will make her work harder - children just aren't that logical, particularly not the stubborn ones!

Basically, there is one thing you haven't really made clear in your posts and that is, what methods you are using to motivate your dd. It is clear what your motivations are and that you have a clear idea on what you want to achieve and how, but not clear how you are passing your beliefs on to your dd and how much of the motivation is hers rather than yours. And therefore, not clear whether there is anything anyone else might be able to suggest that might help you find other strategies for transferring some of your motivation onto your dd and getting her to want what you want as much as you do?

Original poster
IndigoBell · 28/04/2012 20:54

Rabbit - you are quite right. She isn't motivated at all to learn to read and write.

School have done such a great job of differentiating and supporting her that she doesn't believe she needs to learn to read and write.

Every single teacher always assumes its a confidence problem and spend the first half of the year boosting her confidence. Even though it isn't. She is a very confident child with no self esteem issues.

She believes she's clever. And has no confidence issues at all. She is also always happy.

And this brings us full circle to the begining of the thread :) I wish school would stop only telling her she's doing well and somehow convey the message that she needs to learn to read and write

You are also right that putting in extra work doesn't help so she isn't motivated to do it.

But that's OK. I'm not trying to teach her to read by getting her to work 1000 times as hard as everyone else. That is obviously unsustainable.

All the extra effort she has to put in at home is to solve the issues causing her cognitive problems. Eg she has to do vision therapy every day. And that is non-negotiable.

I'm well over half way through solving her underlying problems. In the next 6 months I fully expect to have finished solving them - and then she'll have to put a bit of extra work in at home.

But at the moment there'd be no point. She just does her homework, including reading, each day. And from Mon I'm going to add in 10 minutes of maths because she can learn that.

Once her brains fixed she'll catch up with the others in no time. She's being artificially held back by her reading and spelling. Once she's learnt to read she'll shoot through L3 and L4 :)

OP posts:
nkf · 29/04/2012 15:54

I realised I've missed the point of this thread entirely. I thought you were talking a child predicted a C who wasn't achieving those levels. How can you be having that conversation about a primary school child?

mathanxiety · 29/04/2012 20:33

When you're finished with your DD, maybe you can work on my brain and I can change my name to Einstein. Hmm

Sunscorch · 29/04/2012 21:09

Can I ask for a point of clarification?

Indigo, earlier on in the thread you said something to the effect that your daughter "forgets how to read over the Summer holidays despite your best efforts".
Now, though, the school is trying to get you to come in and teach some lower ability readers using your miracle techniques.

I'm not sure how these two things can be reconciled.

Original poster
IndigoBell · 30/04/2012 09:24

Sorry, no miracle reading techniques.

Just bear necessities / dancing bears which is constantly recommended on this site, and which mrz uses with all her kids who are behind.

Its not a cure for dyslexia. All it is is a learn to read program. And of course my DD has very severe dyslexia - but most kids who can't read in Y3 don't have severe dyslexia.

But it's a very good - and very fast paced - learn to read phonics scheme. Which is designed to be done 10 minutes a day by a parent or TA or parent helper.

We have an army of parent helpers and TAs and could quite easily give each struggling child 10 mins 1:1 of bear necessities.

But because the EP recommends RWI it wasnt something they'd considered before.

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Original poster
IndigoBell · 30/04/2012 09:33

Sunscorch - have you ever taught a child with severe dyslexia to read?

If so, how did you do it?

Have you ever tried and failed to teach a child with severe dyslexia to read?

If so, what were all the things you tried?

My school is a KS2 only school, and pretty much none of the teachers have ever taught a child to read.

All remedial reading is done with TAs. And parent helpers are used to listen to kids read.

OP posts:
MrsTruper · 30/04/2012 10:59

Grrrr! I have it at primary too with my dd....every thing is great, fine good etc....with no aspiration for better......

Can you 'top up' at home...to bring the grade up?

rosettes · 30/04/2012 11:30

Wow. Indigobell you sound like an amazing mum. So knowledgeable. I can't help thinking that with you on your side your dd will do really well eventually.

Sunscorch · 30/04/2012 14:34

Sorry, Indigo, but I don't think you've answered my question.
Earlier, you said "yes DD forgets totally how to read every summer. Despite doing learn to read activities every single day."
Does that not indicate that the work you are doing at home is ineffective?

Original poster
IndigoBell · 30/04/2012 14:46

I think it's probably more indicative that her grades were inflated every July. But when she's tested in Sep by a new teacher they tell me the truth.

Until July when they lie again.

Her levels goes backwards every Sep. I don't actually think its to do with the work I've done with her over Summer.

No teacher has been able to teach her. But they've all claimed to. I've just been told she's a 2b in reading. I'll put money on her new teacher telling me she's worse than that in Sep.

Mrz has already said on this thread it doesn't sound like she's a 2b.

However, every year I learn more. And I certainly know more about teaching reading now then I did last year.

You never answered my question either. What experience have you got with severe dyslexia?

OP posts:
Sunscorch · 30/04/2012 15:23

Apologies, I thought you were referring to your own assessment of her progress over that period, not the teachers'.
Do you believe she makes progress due to the work you do at home?

I have no experience with dyslexia as severe as you're describing.

Original poster
IndigoBell · 30/04/2012 16:29

She is finally making progress due to the work we've been doing at home - after 6 years of trying different things to find what does and doesn't help her.

But the stuff I do at home is not what I'm hoping to do with the Y3 kids.

All I'm proposing for Y3 is dancing bears.

Which won't help at all with severe dyslexia.

But will help the majority of kids to learn to read. And will help more than just listening to them read, which is what parent helpers normally do.

None of the traditional 'learn to read' stuff I've done with her has been effective (it's been other weird stuff that's helped) - but I've tried enough 'learn to read' programs to know that dancing bears is a very good one.

It's certainly better than toe-by-toe or Read, Write, Inc., which are the other schemes the school use.

OP posts:
mrz · 30/04/2012 17:20

As a SENCO I would have no qualms about inviting Indigo into school to talk about her journey and methods.

Original poster
IndigoBell · 30/04/2012 17:29

School got back to me about why a TA read the questions to her in her Jan reading test.

Apparently it was a one off, and they would never normally do it - they just wanted to boost her confidence

Because she wouldn't attempt the level 2 paper in Sep, they thought a TA reading to her would help her feel more confident in Jan Confused

Sounds like it hadn't occurred to them she didn't attempt the level 2 paper in Sep because she couldn't actually read Confused

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peppajay · 30/04/2012 18:03

I think it is far better to have a happy child who enjoys school than one is being pushed to work hard who resents school.

I went to uni as a mature student and I came out with a 2.2 I could easily have got a 2.1 if I worked my butt off but I also went to uni (and I am not ashamed to admit it!!) to have a good laugh and enjoy the social life. A good friend of mine came out with a 1st but worked so so hard and never joined in with the social side and puts her 3 yrs as an undergraduate down as the worst 3 yrs of her life. I didnt work hard at school and got low grades in most of ld my GCSE's but I LOVED school. I think in hindsight I was probably in the wrong type of school for my personality (an all girls secondary modern) and if I had gone to the local comp I probably would have done much better academically!! I would rather my kids be happy with lower grades than miserable with high grades!!