Low Aspirations

[IndigoBell]

Bloody hell I'm cross.

Why do teachers have such low aspirations?

How dare DDs teacher be happy with her attainment. Happy - as in rushed out of school to tell me how well she'd done in her latest test.

On track to almost get a C at GCSEs - and he's happy :(

I hate school. Every bit of it.

There is no expectation that children will do well - only that they'll make a set amount of progress each year.

Children are always told they're brilliant and wonderful - they're never told they're not doing well and they're actually going to have to work hard if they want to achieve something.

No expectations that a child will do well :(

The culture here sucks.

School thinks it's better to have a failing happy child - then a child who works hard :(

But because they make school so fun and engaging she refuses to let me take her out and teach her at home :(

FruitPastilles it's me I'm afraid who started with the phrase "tiger mother". I wasn't comparing OP to one, but then it segued into a parallel discussion.

The whole "don't push yourself attitude" doesn't really seem to feature in anyone whole has made a significant contribution to the world. Just settling is IMO a low aspiration for any child. Life is about pushing yourself to be better in all areas... Especially at the tender age of gcse...

Omydarlin who knows? Not sure about the idea of "optimum level". But I do know that expectation (of parents, teachers, peers etc.) plays a huge part in this. Call me utopian, but I do believe that we could all be a lot smarter/more accomplished if we tried.

Yep sorry I digressed - sorry OP obviously you know what your DD is capable of. I do think it may be about finding the -best- way to push though as it sounds like your DD is being a bit resistant?

It's obviously a musician of praise, self confidence, motivation and positive critical feedback thats required, which the school aren't giving.

Mixture not musician...

I hear you indigo ,my dd's teacher has low expectations of her and it drives me crazy, we have a massive gulf between dd's acheivement at home compared to that of school.
I believe a part of it is we have high expectations of dd and children will live up to your expectations of them, i also agree that we can praise children in an incorrect way and have no problem with telling dd that she did not try hard and could do better if that is the case and at the same time i will praise her highly if she tries hard whether she succeeds or not.

I have high aspirations for every pupil I teach...shame I cant say that about them when they dont even bring a pen and other basic equipment! Then cant be bothered to do homework and then they cant be bothered to do their detentions because they still havent done their homework. They forget their book; they dont bother to turn up to revision sessions which I run in my holidays.
So whilst I have high expectations and aspirations....the majority of the pupils I teach do not!

Actually Fruit you might be onto something. A musician of praise, self-confidence etc. ... There was once a great tradition of "praise singers", highly skilled musicians who would follow important people around and literally sing their praises in great detail and at length.

A bit tedious in the long run - but what an ego boost!

I don't think many of my teachers or my parents had high expectation for my G.C.S.E. results or any long term educational attainment. It was expected that I work hard and try my best. It was frankly unconceivable to me that I wouldn't.

I now suspect that praising the hard work was because there was very little else positive to focus on, I was dx later on in life with few issues, but it really paid off and I've done well much to their surprise.

Other than go back and find out why 2 levels progress hasn't been made - when it's expected, is she nearly there, are there weak areas but it must be incredible frustrating for you.

Quiet frankly IndigoBell I don't know how fit in so much support for your DC as it is. I'm struggling fitting in a very small amount before and after school with two DC and trying to work round their tiredness.

Given that the EP report the school had done on her put her cognitive abilities in the 98th percentile, it's not unreasonable for me to expect her to do well at school.

I refuse to lower my expectations for her. I wont be doing her any favours if her career options are limited by very poor academic results.

This is a long term game we're playing.

Tolkien - somethings gone wrong earlier to give those children such low aspirations.

Devil - its OK, I've just lost my job, so I'll now have loads of time to help her at home :)

I'm sorry Indigo .

Way to look at the positives though .

Yes....it`s partly where they come from and partly many teenagers today who cannot be bothered. Many parents instead of supporting the schools deliberatelypbut obstacles in our way and other staff members do not often help/back us up! But hey...as long as I do my bit!

Indigo I'm so sorry to hear that. Hope your job situation improves very soon.
x

Sorry about your job IndigoBell - have you had the got to knuckle down and work hard it will pay dividends and I know you can do it talk I assume you have - just a thought really. I can't be much help my DD is only nearly 8. But it is so scary it all feeds in what level they are when they leave Juniors > where they get placed in sets in Secondary> whether or not they can do higher level maths. Scary stuff.

But it is so scary it all feeds in what level they are when they leave Juniors > where they get placed in sets in Secondary> whether or not they can do higher level maths. Scary stuff.

Any secondary worth its salt will be continuously monitoring their pupils' progress and placing them in the most appropriate sets. Their attainment at the end of KS2 doesn't necessarily determine their secondary career. All it does is feed in to nationally determined targets for progress. We are allowed to exceed those targets, you know!

Bowerbird you are spot on with this: While some of the methods might be too extreme there is something really positive about the whole tiger mother thing and it's a common cultural attitude in China and Korea. It's that the expectations are extremely high because parents believe that their children are capable of just about anything. There's no such concept as "more able" or "less able" or "bright" or "not academic". Achievement is down to effort and hard work. I think it's a hugely liberating attitude.

And maizie statistically speaking pupils are more likely to get the best grades at GCSE if they have high levels at KS2. No one is expecting As or A*s from the bottom set etc. Most believe ability is fixed and children pick up on these subtle cues and tend to live up or down to our expectations. Sure, you might get a few late developers that go on to do well but generally speaking, IME, the die is cast.

Bowerbird Asia is interesting. The hours that some children put in there can't be healthy (in some cases think 2 hour class after school in maths concepts, followed by another 2 hour class in maths drill so tables/subtraction addition is second nature etc). Can intellect grow through practice? I think so. We had a Chinese teacher at our school and our head got quite upset he said 'the thing is she just doesn't understand that we have low ability children in this school'. Makes you think.

Cortina - absolutely the point to me is that statistically speaking it's very hard to get a good grade at GCSEs if you don't get a good grade at KS2. And if you don't get a B at GCSEs you can't do A levels. And if you can't do A levels your career options are severely limited.

So that is why I mentioned her target GCSE grade even though she's in Y4. Sure she might buck the trend and be part of the 1% who do well from this starting point, but chances are she won't be - unless she's prepared to work exceptionally hard.

It's certainly a far easier path to good grades if you leave Y6 in the top third who get a 5.

SunScorch - After sleeping on it, I think you win the prize. You said there's still a term left. I'm fairly sure this mark is the one that will be recorded as her end of year mark, because teachers are writing reports now and they need numbers to put in it. (and the school needs time to analyse the data etc)

(do other schools do what mine does? Half yearly marks are done at end of term 1 and end of year marks are done at end of term 2?)

But, even if this is recorded as her end of year mark, hopefully she will still make progress this term.

Also I know this mark isn't a fair representation of her maths knowledge. I know her brain was fried before 45 minutes and she mucked up questions she did know. I also know she ran out of time.

So, I guess I feel a bit better after sleeping. And will be able to have a calm talk with her teacher tonight. :).

he will placate me and tell me whatever he thinks I want to hear and then in Sep when she does worse than I expected based on his reassurance and excuses I will once again be upset

(although I will also mention to the numeracy coordinator how concerned I am that she's considered to be one of the best at times tables in her class. Either her teacher was being polite or, more likely, the whole class is terrible at times tables :( )

I wish I wasn't a school governor. I wish I didn't know the schools attitude to 'closing the gap'. I wish I still had faith in the school :(

I don't mind that she is where she is. I mind hugely that the teacher is happy with where she is. He shouldn't be.

" It's that the expectations are extremely high because parents believe that their children are capable of just about anything. There's no such concept as "more able" or "less able" or "bright" or "not academic". Achievement is down to effort and hard work. I think it's a hugely liberating attitude."

Liberated from reality.

Sounds like an X Factor script.

1% is of course the wrong number (that's the number of L1s who convert to L5 in KS2)

Less than half of kids who leave KS2 on L4 get a C at GCSE.

Of the remaining kids, more of them get below a C then get above a C. :(

KS4 progress tables

Indigo with you behind them I am confident of a very good outcome for your children.

A thing in your life - many in Asia would beg to differ. Hours of serious practice for many years & months rather goes against the grain with typical British cultural attitudes - especially when it comes to serious study & things of educational value.

Athing I think that's a very sad outlook. Liberated from reality? Please.

This has nothing to do with XFactor nonsense. As Cortina mentions, British educational culture is all about identifying the "bright" pupils and developing them, and consigning the rest to sub-standard opportunities. All I'm saying is that this culture is not universal.

Your dismissive tone implies that the idea that most children can achieve a great deal is some pie-in-the-sky, airy-fairy, wishful thinking. You ignore something called ...evidence.

Well, I have high aspirations for ds. He might scrape a 5 in Maths, and a 4 in English (because he's being coached to do so at school). I don't think he's going to achieve a raft of A*s at GCSE or A Level, but I know he's a bright boy and he will go on to do interesting and fulfilling things in later life.

Of course we'll give him as much support and encouragement as we can and we will expect him to try his hardest. But I refuse to call him a failure should his grades be average.

Ideally of course he'll get a ton of As and the world will be his oyster, but should he not, there are other ways to get to where he wants to go. I also think that sometimes the expectation that having achieved a raft of As closes doors because the expectation is that you'll go to a particular university and study a particular course. OP, if your dd gets 5 A*s at A-level, will you keep up the pressure and insist she goes to Oxbridge, even if what she really wants to do is Equestrian studies at the local agricultural college?

Maybe I say this because I was a mature student who has gone on to do far better than my grades would've told you at 16 (I left school with no qualifications at all), whereas ds's father did very well indeed at school and university and, 20 years on, is little further along careerwise, and less far along fulfillment-wise (I enjoy my work, he doesn't) than I am?

yabu to get so angry about in y4; she's only 8 or 9.
Do you really think her whole academic career is determined already?
Your child is not a statistic.