Teachers and Parents, please help! Please,really don't know what to do!

[TheRoundTable]

Hello!

I have got a child in Year2 and even when in Year 1,her teacher complained about her 'up and down' learning. She'd understand a concept one day and be totally lost on the same, the next day,particularly in Maths. I've tried everything or at least I think so-backing off, simple games online cbeebies/cbbc,bite-sized chunks regularly,strict approach-but we come back to this point of frustration!
Some days, she solves quite tricky problems-knows her doubles which she uses to solve near doubles,finds differences between numbers,addition and subtraction in her head,so can do 67+24 or 67-24,and word problems,e.t.c.
One day,she's telling me we need 7 4x if 4 apples cost 7p each and would say two 7s are 14 and two 14s are 28 so 28p.

Some days? She's totally lost! I have tried going back to the basics over and over and over! The frustrating thing is I lose my temper sometimes and then she gets it! I can't begin to fake losing my temper before she learns? And of course her teacher can't do that,so she is not doing well at all at school. I am tired of helping her at home,because it's like we keep going round in circles,thinking we are making progress at some point and then boom! All out the window again!

I don't think she has any special needs and her teachers do not think so either...

Will be very grateful for any advice offered. Thank you!

Losing your temper is counter productive, it will lead to her being scared to try.
I would suggest she probably does have some kind on SEN. If you can try to read The Myth of Laziness.
Try to keep a diary of when she can do things and when she can't. Then try to see if there is a pattern: is she better or worse after school? Morning or evening? Does exercise help or not? Before or after food? Do ant foods seem to affect her? Is she nervous of making mistakes? Do Maths lessons make it worse? ( my kids have been nervous to use methods other than those the teacher uses.)

Good luck.

I think mummytime is right that you must be very careful to use the same techniques as the school does to avoid confusion. Also maybe back off a bit. She may be panicing and getting 'brain freeze'.
She is only in year 2 and my year 2 variable day to day with stuff- especially if tired. Have the school asked you to do extra? You don't want her to become scared of maths.

I wouldn't count on school having a clue whether or not she has SN.

The key thing here is her being 'up and down'

My first advice (to almost all kids) would be to try her on Omega. (If you're not already) It's so important for the brain....

The best brand is Vegepa

Once you've got that going, the next thing to look at is diet. (And sleep) These are things that can have a massive impact on a child - and can (partially?) explain her being so up and down.

Is she having any protein at breakfast? Eggs or beans of bacon? Protein can have a absolute massive impact on how she functions all day.

(I was very embarrassed to find out eventually that baked beans for breakfast instead of weetabix meant DD was fine all day at school)

As a headteacher, my advice would be to ease off. Seriously. She is only in Year 2 and by the sounds of it, has a grasp of what she needs to know, even if she can't show it every day! Although I am sure you do not intentionally display your anxiety, she will pick up on it, make no mistake about that, and that will have a negative effect on her learning. Even talking about your worries around her, whilst not directly to her, will have this effect. Please do not force her to do extra work - be led by her and make it fun. Also include fun activities like getting her to help with the shopping (money). Also bear in mind that number is not the only component of maths - how is she with shape & space & handling data for example? Cooking together and other activities which help develop these skills are great for self esteem. Praise her up - lots!

I can say this to you as someone who is not connected to your school and therefore who will not be driven by (unreasonable?) targets! Your child's emotional well-being I'm sure, is your number one priority. Your child's school should also have the same priority; however, sadly, for many, this is lost in the drive to improve standards and targets.

With regards to SEN, Year 2 is relatively early for specific learning needs to be diagnosed so I really wouldn't worry on that score yet.

Finally, with regards to her diet, the most important thing is that she is hydrated. She should have access to drinking water all day.

Happy to provide any further advice :)

Thank you for responding everyone...
I should have added that all I do with her now is her homework from school-stopped any extra stuff,because I just wanted her to be happy and I told her teacher in Year1 that I didn't care about levels as long as she did her work happily.
What worries me is that even the basic stuff seems alien to her sometimes.
I have been very unwell for a while now,so sometimes I'm wondering if it's due to me not showing much of an interest in her work,except homework which I'd tell her to do herself until she's really stuck. It's hard to explain what it's like,but I know that there's something I'm not doing right.
Will get the Vegepa and talk to her about taking more water at school-she goes in with a bottle daily.
If you/anyone else has anything to add, we'd appreciate it a lot

Hi

Round table, I am having similar problems at the moment, but do have work from school, which we are struggling through. Having said that we had a few really good 'lightbulb' moments today, so fingers crossed!!!

Indigo, I am interested in this Omega. Problem is my dd hates taking anything most things!

Are these capsules very large and can they be swallowed easily?

Thanks.

Kate

Poor you - sounds like you have had enough to cope with without worrying about this. Number 1 - try and lose the guilt about not doing something right. Difficult I know, as it goes with the job of being a mum - but you really do sound anxious and that isn't going to help your recovery.

Homework - sounds obvious, but don't leave it all until the last minute. 10 mins a day plus reading practice should be ample. At any rate, your little girl should not be overloaded with homework. My advice would be to sit with her if you can - don't bombard her with questions but perhaps just get her to explain in very simple terms what she has to do. That doesn't mean doing it for her but just sitting with her (even if you are ostensibly doing something else) so she doesn't feel alone. Leaving her to do it by herself until she gets stuck won't help her self-esteem.

If your child's teacher doesn't already do it, ask him/her to send home a sheet which explains the mathematical strategies used in school. Many children get confused because school teach them how to work things out one way and their parents show them another!

Another tip for homework - see if she wants to use a small dry wipe board for initial jottings. Some children don't like making mistakes on sheets or on books, even if they can rub them out. Word of warning though - teachers do like to see how children have worked things out so don't just use that for a 'rough draft' and hand in a perfect version!

Communication is key. Don't alienate the school and try and have faith in your child's teacher. He/she will have your child's best interests at heart.

Keep going - I'm sure you are doing a brilliant job. Your daughter is very lucky to have such a supportive Mum :)

Paddling - Vegepa also does a Chewable capsule. (You can either swallow the plastic coating or spit it out)

Carrie With regards to SEN, Year 2 is relatively early for specific learning needs to be diagnosed so I really wouldn't worry on that score yet. - this is a really odd comment. If a child has SEN when they are in Y3, they also had it in Y2. So no reason to not worry just because school don't want to 'label' your child yet.

RoundTable I'm not sure how many people on this thread have experience of a child who can do something one moment and can't the next. I do. My DD was incredibly 'spiky'. School were worried about how spiky she was - but as they'd already labelled her with dyslexia they had an explanation and therefore weren't really concerned.

All the praise and attention and good teaching in the world can't solve spikyness if it's due to a brain problem.

It's taken me a couple of years to sort out DDs spikyness. We have done a lot of things in that time. And at this stage, when you're not very concerned, I wouldn't recommend most of them to you.

But a thing that helped an awful lot to cure her spikyness was diet and supplemnents. We're on a lot more supplements than just Vegepa. But that's a good place to start.

WRT to diet I can't believe how strict we had to be with DDs diet to stop her being so spiky.

You really need to look at what additives and eNums your DD is taking.
Also how much sugar she's having
Also what her blood sugar's like over the day - ie making sure she has more protein than carbs.

It's a lot more complicated than just drinking water. And it's very hard to get good advice. Like I said I'd always assumed weetabix was a healthy and good breakfast.

I could be totally wrong. It may be just that your DD is stressed. You're the only one who can tell. You know whether she can do it and won't, or if she really can't do it.

You don't necessarily need to be worried. But you do need to figure out what's going on and how you're going to help it.

Indigo - you have obviously done a lot of research on this and I fully respect what you are saying. I hope you get the support and respect you deserve from your children's school.

I'm sorry you think my comment is odd. I think you may have misunderstood. Perhaps I should have explained in more detail. From a professional point of view, many diagnostic tests for specific learning difficulties cannot be either performed or conclusive until the child is older, simply because of the rate a child learns and develops. That does not mean a teacher or SENCo is not gathering evidence at an earlier age.

I am trying to help the OP keep things in perspective. I have been a headteacher for a number of years and have a lot of experience of many different children experiencing this 'spikiness'. In my experience, in cases where the child has a basic grasp of essential age-related skills, and where no other specific learning difficulty or disability has been diagnosed at a later stage, the 'spikiness' is something that has resolved as the child has matured.

In saying this, I do not wish to belittle the problem, nor do I underestimate the importance of a good diet and awareness of certain trigger foods. However, I cannot stress enough the negative impact of parental anxiety, whether conveyed directly or indirectly, has on a child's academic progress. This is something I know to be underestimated by many parents.

Furthermore, it is essential that schools and parents work together, in co-operation, not conflict or confrontation. A child who receives mixed messages, that is, a child who knows that parents and school are in conflict, will be very confused - and this too, will have a detrimental effect on progress.

Hello TheRoundTable

I'm just a Mum but had very similar problems with both DDs. We found that tiredness and the run up to getting ill really affect performance in school and out of class. I'd have a teacher complain to me DD1 was very distracted and not concentrating and 2 days later she'd have a raging fever and be throwing up all night. You could set your watch by it. Eventually my theory was upheld as the 2 days later coincided with DD1 getting spectacularly sick in class. A rather spectactular way of convincing a teacher your observation may have some validity I feel.

If there is no SEN, but it is just the normal ebbs and flows of a young mind with a propensity to wander (and to be fair sometimes what's going on out the window is far more interesting than 26 - 17 or doodling on the paper is more interesting) I'd suggest the solution may be a regular regime of short practices (much as HT CarrieMoonbeam described).

Several have posted on MN singing the praises of Mathletics and Mathswhizz. We opted for mathsfactor becaue in late Y2 my DD1 definitely wasn't getting the mechanics of addition/ subtraction so also needed review of instruction. The pace is very slow (which suits my DDs) and we practice maths 5 x a week for about 20 minutes a time.

Anyway you can find more information here - www.themathsfactor.com/. There are a number of different options from on-line tutorial monthly subscription, to holiday clubs (summer and winter) to on-line worksheet clubs.

As a Mum who's rather over the hill, what I liked was that it used 'current terminology' for maths which was in keeping with the approach of the school, but also acknowledged 'old fashioned' approaches. Because teaching is via video - the teacher (Carol Vorderman) is always cheery and supportive, and obviously has endless reservoirs of patience (unlike me). Because of it's gaming formats - it does make learning math fun and somehow learning on computer is always much better than boring old Mum showing us her old fashioned pen on paper approach.

I'm not saying it is the solution for everybody. But I am saying that we found that regular opportunity at practice built skills and ultimately confidence which solved a lot of the problems our girls were facing, especially DD1, who has improved beyond all recognition to our great joy and the school's surprise.

HTH

Carrie - that all makes sense.

Basically you are saying there may or may not be something wrong. School won't know conclusively for another year or two. But in your experience very often the child grows out of it.

And that parental worry makes things worse.

I agree with all of that besides 'parental worry makes it worse'. That's only true when there is no problem and the child grows out if it by themself.

If there is SEN - then worrying helps. A lot. And teachers saying not to worry is both unhelpful and patronising.

My DD is getting lots if support from school. Lots of support - but no education.

I'm really not clear fr

So I just think your advice would be more helpful if it finished with something along the lines of 'if your child is still so spiky in Y3 then it is more concerning and you should talk to the SENCO / teacher'

Rather than a blanket 'don't worry'

(or whatever age / level of spikyness you do think it's concerning)

HIjack ALert
Indigo - I've read the book by the guy from Tinsley House and so have ordered Vegepa as suggested above for dd- what is the recommended initial dose? I vaguely remember reading either on here or in teh book that it is double normal dose - but can't remember.

As a SENCO I would disagree with Carrie the sooner an apparent difficulty is identified and supported or ruled out the better.

But her teacher doesn't think she has any special needs and I'd hate to make her feel she doesn't know what she's doing. How do I tell her to check for the sake of it? She just thinks daughter is very weak in Maths,but I see the on and off so much at home. She would sometimes write 5-20, even if she very well knows that it is wrong most times.
I'd have ignored as normal,because we all forget even as adults,but it is getting too much and even if I tell her mistakes are fine they help us learn,it is becoming very disturbing and definitely affecting her too because she knows she's never sure or secure.
I have backed off so much so as not to make her nervous that I am wondering if that was a mistake now. Where exactly do I begin now if her teacher feels she is just so weak? The stuff she's having for homework now are things she did in Year 1 and she still struggles with them.

I'm not suggesting she has any SEN but there is a problem which shouldn't just be left to get worse ignored whether she is in reception, Y1, Y2 or doing GCSEs. Most difficulties can be corrected quickly with a little support.

I have ordered the book above-Myth of Laziness and the Vegepa capsules... Thank you

I think the reason her teacher feels she has no special needs is because her literacy is quite good. I was trying to help her see what was going on at home and she kept saying her literacy is good and to back off. I have been 'off' for so long and it hasn't helped. I really don't want to show my anxiety,but quite hard because even if I go back to the basics again,we may still come back to this point.

PastSellBy- I was considering online tutoring,but would they help in a case like this where a child is so on and off? I wanted to get her to Explore or get a tutor,but she's young and won't it be the same thing or worse?

There is actually no evidence to support omega 3 have any impact at all on children's brain development or academic achievement. Honestly. Ditto hydration.

I'm very grateful for your input and wish you were her teacher at this point. I'd like it to be ruled out too,but don't know how to put it so her teacher doesn't think I'm being melo dramatic

Seeker - quite a bold statement to say there's no evidence for Omega. There's been literally thousands of studies done on it. How deeply have you investigated it?

There is an awful lot of evidence that it helps. There is still a lot of ongoing research about the best ratio of EPA to DHA and dosage levels.

Haggis - start with 500mls. Which is 2 of the swallow able capsules or 4 of the chewable ones.

BlueShark is doing 1000mls and has seen amazing results.

I'm doing 500 and after 4 months I can still see by his skin (lots of bumps on his face and upper arms) that DS is still deficient. So I won't be halving the dose for a long time.

Round - I really don't think your teacher is giving you good advice - or knows much about SEN.

Teachers have hardly any training in SEN. Parents expect them to know way more than they do.

This kind of spikyness is very hard to fix. (but possible)

The fact your teacher thinks its ok that your DD is struggling in maths because she is doing well in literacy makes me think your teacher is very average - ie useless with SEN. think you should be more proactive.

Link me to one properly peer reviewed scientific study that proves that omega 3 has a significant impact on children's learning and I'll, as they say, eat my hat..

Indigo, do you mean 500mg?

because 500mls is nearly a pint.