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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

Teachers and Parents, please help! Please,really don't know what to do!

155 replies

TheRoundTable · 08/04/2012 18:31

Hello!

I have got a child in Year2 and even when in Year 1,her teacher complained about her 'up and down' learning. She'd understand a concept one day and be totally lost on the same, the next day,particularly in Maths. I've tried everything or at least I think so-backing off, simple games online cbeebies/cbbc,bite-sized chunks regularly,strict approach-but we come back to this point of frustration!
Some days, she solves quite tricky problems-knows her doubles which she uses to solve near doubles,finds differences between numbers,addition and subtraction in her head,so can do 67+24 or 67-24,and word problems,e.t.c.
One day,she's telling me we need 7 4x if 4 apples cost 7p each and would say two 7s are 14 and two 14s are 28 so 28p.

Some days? She's totally lost! I have tried going back to the basics over and over and over! The frustrating thing is I lose my temper sometimes and then she gets it! I can't begin to fake losing my temper before she learns? And of course her teacher can't do that,so she is not doing well at all at school. I am tired of helping her at home,because it's like we keep going round in circles,thinking we are making progress at some point and then boom! All out the window again!

I don't think she has any special needs and her teachers do not think so either...

Will be very grateful for any advice offered. Thank you!

OP posts:
IndigoBell · 09/04/2012 12:56

Sorry - of course I mean mgs Blush

IndigoBell · 09/04/2012 13:03

Seeker - have you got any studies that prove it doesn't work? ( as opposed to the study being inconclusive)

And do those studies prove Omega doesn't help any kid? Or just that they don't help all kids?

You will not be able to find a study that proves that omega does not help some kids.

seeker · 09/04/2012 13:05

You're the one saying that something has an effect. And you're recommending it to other people. It's up to you to provide evidence.

Original poster
TheRoundTable · 09/04/2012 13:12

What I'd really like/want is that there's progress no matter what level she's at. Any progress at all,not forwards and then falling flat again :(

OP posts:
IndigoBell · 09/04/2012 13:33

Seeker - have you done any research on it at all? Or are you just quoting bad science?

Do you realise bad science didn't say it had no effect - he just said he didn't agree with the design of the study.

So he was saying that the Durham study didn't prove it helped.

Which is a long, long way from saying it doesn't help.

IndigoBell · 09/04/2012 13:38

Bad science is complaining about a different study than the one mrz points to.

But if you read the abstract it points out an important fact - EPA studies are showing it helps more do than DHA studies.

Which is why I recommend Vegepa which is pure EPA.

IndigoBell · 09/04/2012 13:42

Round - school cant help spikyness. Only you can.

A certain amount of spikyness is to b expected - but extreme spikyness is a symptom of SEN.

DDs reading varied from 'almost bring able to read' to 'unable to read anything'

School can't help with that - because it's not a teaching problem.

CarrieMoonbeam · 09/04/2012 14:03

mrz (and others) - just want to make it clear that I DO NOT advocate ignoring any special needs or difficulties - at any stage of education! Not sure I'd be doing my job properly if that was the case - ignoring children's needs, special or otherwise, is hardly conducive to raising standards ha ha.

OP - do talk to your child's teacher more. The issue of progress in schools is huge and they should be able to reassure you (and hopefully show you, with some tangible data) that progress is being made.

Communication and co-operation is key - between all parties. Confrontation and conflict does not help. That applies to all concerned - teachers, parents, other professionals, other family members and friends.

So - approach the teacher for more information - but not accusingly. Teachers are only human and will get defensive if pushed. If you get no joy from the class teacher, make an appointment to see the head and SENCo together.

I do hope you resolve this and are able to work productively with your child's school Smile

tethersend · 09/04/2012 14:04

Actually, I think Carrie has given very good advice; although I am an advocate of early diagnosis of SEN, I do think the advice not to worry is sound.

Children with spiky profiles can still make progress- I would argue that in many cases, the school may need to adapt its teaching methods for some 'spiky' children, and tailor assessment to take account of the way in which spiky children learn. Progress is not always linear.

IndigoBell · 09/04/2012 14:07

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16997534

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18158838

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15041031

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10970717

A Few of the many many studies that are finding correlations between problems and omega defeciency.

Sargesaweyes · 09/04/2012 14:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrz · 09/04/2012 14:11

I agree progress is rarely linear but knowing something today and not knowing it tomorrow or next week would cause me concern and I would want to know why.

As someone who was told not to worry by experts for years I wish I'd worried more and I wish they had listened to a parent's concern and not so readily dismissed it.

IndigoBell · 09/04/2012 14:13

Tethersend - only counting assessments from spiky children when they can do the task doesn't really help with their spikeyness. (although it does help the teacher to show progress has been made)(and it certainly does nothing to show the parent that there's no problem)

When people say 'progress isn't linear' I didn't realise they meant that spikeyness is fine. I thought they meant some times children learn quickly and sometimes they learn slowly.

IndigoBell · 09/04/2012 14:17

Carrie - I have 3 children on the SEN register. I work very closely with school. Both their teachers and the SENCO. In fact I'm sure they wish I'd work 'less closely' with them.

It doesn't change the fact that there's very little school can do to help with ASD, Dyslexia and Dyspraxia.

While there's heaps and heaps and heaps I can do.

I've cured my DDs spikeyness. school could never ever do that. Al the talks with the SENCO won't help with spikeyness.

mrz · 09/04/2012 14:20

When people say 'progress isn't linear' I didn't realise they meant that spikeyness is fine. I thought they meant some times children learn quickly and sometimes they learn slowly.

they do

tethersend · 09/04/2012 14:25

I suppose that for me, the most concerning thing about a spiky profile is that any progress made by the child is likely to be recorded inaccurately or not at all. This makes accurate diagnosis of any SEN even more difficult, as I have seen children written off and diagnosed with 'global delay' (sorry, hate that term) and taught at an insufficiently challenging level.

I think a certain degree of spikiness is fine. A child who can remember nothing of what they have been taught the previous day would concern me, but a spiky profile alone would not necessarily cause the same concern.

I do understand the worried parent thing. I am a teacher and DD has some issues which I am having to push with nursery, even though I am being told she is fine. I don't advocate dismissing parental worries at all- but I think it's important to discuss what a spiky profile can mean.

mrz · 09/04/2012 14:29

I was called an over protective mother by one EP, two others said he's a good reader don't worry Hmm ...so my son's needs weren't identified until he was 12!!!

IndigoBell · 09/04/2012 14:37

Tethers - the most concerning thing about spikeyness isnt that progress is recorded wrong.

The most concerning thing is that it exists.

A certain degree of spikeyness is fine. This sounds like its crossed that line.

tethersend · 09/04/2012 14:38

Bloody hell... how unprofessional, mrsz. I have been told that I am worrying unneccesarily by the Early Years Advisor and that I need to keep DD in the same (inadequate) setting next year. That won't be happening.

Don't get me started on EPs Wink

tethersend · 09/04/2012 14:42

I disagree, Indigo- the existence of a spiky profile in itself is not necessarily cause for alarm. Seen in terms of emotional difficulties for example, it can be seen as a perfectly logical pattern, and not necessarily indicative of a learning difficulty.

I would say that the period of time the spikiness covers and the degree of the peaks and troughs would determine the amount and kind of concern.

AfricanExport · 09/04/2012 14:49

OP

That is how my dd was described to me and she was evaluated privately and is mildly dyslexic... but this mild dyslexia has impacted everything including confidence. Apparently it explains why she is able to do stuff one day and absolutely forget totally about it the next.

I would have her assessed. We have done FastForWord and now, on the advice of Indigo we are taking her for AIT asap. I did not think she was SEN and neither had her teachers before. There was a lot of comments of Lazy and distracted. Being told she was not interested in schoolwork when she was telling me she was trying really hard. We had so many tears and so much frustrated shouting (on both sides) it was unhealthy.

I could not get my head around why my dd was the only girl in her class who could bake a cake from scratch using a proper recipe but when it came to maths and volumes she did not have a clue. It did not make sense.

It turns out to be an Audio processing issue and we are working on that.

pastoralacademia · 09/04/2012 15:09

I couldn?t agree more with IndigoBell and Mrz. Now I know why Mrz is so knowledgeable, you are doing a fantastic job here Thanks.

Caring parents are better than any experts when it comes to their children. Once they are tuned in they surpass any professional. Please Round trust your instinct and follow your heart, don?t wait for the teacher. We are what we eat, vitamins are important as well as water. Don't forget gymnastics and swimming.

mrz · 09/04/2012 15:28

The paediatrician had already told me he'd seen worse Hmm tethersend

seeker · 09/04/2012 16:03

Thank you fo those links, indigoBell- I obviously can't read the whole article, but the abstracts seem to be suggesting that there is a suggestion of a link, and it is something that would merit a proper, randomised double blind trial. Has that happened, do you know?