As we are in admissions season again...some top tips for first timers

[BetsyBoop]

On this thread a while ago, I posted some top tips on the admissions system, which people found useful, so here they are again...

1. Visit every school local to you & make your own mind up - don't go on reputation/gossip/Ofsted reports/league tables
2. Find out how likely it is you stand a chance of a place by looking at the last few years admissions (eg what category & distance)
3. Put the schools in your genuine order or preference (schools are not allowed to operate a "first preference first" system, despite what people tell you)
4. Use all your preferences - but be realistic about your chances of getting a place - don't waste a preference on a hell-will-freeze-over-first option.
5. Always include one "safe" option (even if it is as last preference) which you are okay with & are pretty much guaranteed to get into (ie "catchment" school) . (Or you run the risk of getting a random "worse" school miles away if you don't get any of your preferences)
6. You will not be able to bully the LA/school/appeals panel into giving you the school you want by only putting that school on the application form & refusing places at other schools.
7. Read the admission code - you need to know the "rules" as if the rules are broken it gives you a valid reason to appeal.
8. Submit any exceptional social/medical circumstances evidence with your initial application, whether or not you are fairly confident you will get a place anyway - much easier than trying to win an appeal based on this later (which will typically fail if it is an infant class size* appeal)

• "infant class size" =YR/Y1/Y2 classes can have a maximum of 30 pupils per teacher

PRH, thanks for that. That's kind of how I feel about it, but I did need to check what others thought. My nearest school is a Catholic VA school so for the LEAs purposes it's not included as my nearest school. Which makes my preferred choice my 3rd closest now, not my fourth (phew!).

Our closest school has a very bad reputation and a poor Ofsted report, however I will visit it and I'm going to see for myself. I'm not afraid of asking the HT to justify those rumours (bullying and violence) and what they're doing about it.

Our second closest school is ok... they're spending a lot of money on the site (it now has an indoor swimming pool ... In a Primary school?? - lucky beggars) but academically it's not brilliant still. But I've put it as my third choice.

Our third closest school is the one mentioned above, it's where ds currently goes to nursery.

Our fourth closest school is amazing. Brilliant Ofsteds, I went there on Tuesday and it's an amazing school. Last year there were 23 siblings, 70 children for whom it was their nearest school and 27 based on distance, the furthest of which was 1.78km. We're 1.2km. BUT, last year their intake was 120 instead of 90, because it's such an amazing school and we had a shortage of spaces last year the LEA asked them to add another 30 spaces. I'm amazed they were able to and not affect the level of teaching. They don't know how many spaces they'll be asked to provide this year, normally it's 90, but if it's another 120 then we'd be in with a chance. I put this school second on my list of preferences and would be made up if we got in!

lovelybunchofcoconuts do you mean the telephone number? it's on our councils website. Or did you mean something else?

I have found the number after much digging! just called them and they gave me the admissions figures for the top two and I have decided to change my order based on the info provided that my original second choice accepted 60 children last year but 78 put it as 1st choice so they didn't even look at 2nd and 3rd choices. So there would be no point putting it as 2nd or 3rd.

My original first choice (the catholic) were accepting 30 and 24 people put it as 1st choice and all 24 were accepted. The LEA are calling me back with the figures re admissions for Cathlic v Non catholic admissions as they are accepting only 20 this year.

so I think I will put the under subscribed as 2nd and the over subscrbed as 1st. and the 3rd will be the 'don't mind if we get it school'

Does that sound ok?

Thanks all :)

NomDePC - In that case I would definitely try to tak to the SENCO. If they aren't willing to talk to you it tells you everything you need to know.

I don't have to do this until next year, but if you are lucky enough to live one street away from your preferred (non-faith) school, the school states on its website that admissions operate by [siblings and then] door-to-door walking distance, and you have checked you are definitely in catchment, is it pretty much guaranteed you will get in, or is it still a gamble?

The other thing I'm worried about (slightly) is that XP told me he couldn't get into two particular (good) schools when his mum applied (this was in the 80s!) because his surname had too bad a reputation. DS has the same surname. This is ridiculous isn't it? They can't refuse entry because of a name? I mentioned it to now-DP as a possible support in my case (I want to change DS' name to mine anyway as XP doesn't have contact through his own choice) and said it's probably ridiculous but... and he said that no, things like that can affect school places and something similar affected his niece a couple of years ago.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts - Alarm bells are ringing! Are you in England? If so they are required by law to operate the "equal preference" system. That means there is absolutely no way they can give priority to children who put the school as first choice. If they genuinely admitted 60 of the 78 who made the school first choice without even looking at second and third choices they broke the law. Your chances of getting in to a particular school should be the same regardless of whether you make it your first choice or your last choice.

BertieBotts - In that situation I would say you have a good chance of getting in but you shouldn't rely on it. Use all your preferences.

Your name cannot have any effect whatsoever on your chances of getting a place at a school. I sincerely hope your DP is wrong about what happened with his niece. If she was excluded because of her surname the parents should have appealed. They aren't allowed to do that.

BertieBotts that sounds like nonsense to me - something like that should have absolutely no affect in a state school. There's a lot of rubbish talked about admissions. My parents and in-laws (generational thing, I think) have been badgering me for the last 4 years to 'put DS's name down' for the local primary school, even this wouldn't make the slightest difference (anyway, the only 'list' they have just ensures that they inform you about the date of the open day).

alovelybunchofcoconuts that sounds very dodgy... I was told that preference order was only known by the admissions authority, and not the schools. The only time preference order is used is if you don't get your first choice, you are usually put on the waiting list for that school even if you get a place at another school

PRH - I've found the admissions criteria (eventually) on the LA website. No mention at all of parents with disabilities. I'm going to ask the school later if they require a supplementary form & where to get it. It's confusing to read one thing on their application booklet & another on the admissions criteria!

bebeballroom - It is not only confusing, it is worrying. They really should be consistent as to their admissions criteria or they will have all kinds of problems.

Esp 3. and 4. People will tell you 'you only get in suchaplace if you put it first'. This is a myth. Its based on the admissions.

I would like to add that its worth thinking about the future and any siblings you have (planned). Many schools give priority to children in catchment with a sibling. If you scraped into a school out of catchment you may come unstuck further down the line and find a sibling doesn't get in (as they don't have priority) causing you no end of trouble.

I'm confused about differing admissions policy. Our LEA has the same policy for all LA controlled schools (not independent, or VA). Do other LEAs have different policies for different schools?

I'm confused about differing admissions policy. Our LEA has the same policy for all LA controlled schools (not independent, or VA). Do other LEAs have different policies for different schools?

No, you are right, an LEA will have the same admission criteria for all schools it controls (typically community & voluntary controlled schools). Voluntary Aided, foundation and academy schools handle their own admissions & each set their own criteria. However anyone living on the boundary of two or more LEAs needs to check (if they are applying outside of their "home" LEA) the criteria for all LEAs they are applying to, as they may not be the same.

Oh I seee, thanks for clearing that up for me Betsy

Coconuts, do you know that the 60 who got in all had the school as their first choice? It could have been say 26 who had it as first choice, 16 who had it as 2nd and 18 who had it as 3rd for example.

I'm glad I saw this thread, we are just starting to look around schools for DD. It's exciting, isn't it?

Does anyone know if there's policy on how long you have to have lived in the application address for, and how long you have to live there after the place is offered, or if that varies from borough to borough? And what paperwork do you need to prove where you live?

Family member is renting, recently moved in and is trying to get bills in the right name (council keeps totally misspelling name on council tax bill which apparently is needed as part of the application), and is terrified that if the landlord gives them notice that an offered school place will be taken away if child isn't living in the same house when school starts (landlord can't give notice for first 6 months so should be OK for the application period).

A handful of LAs seem to have policies about how long you must live at the application address prior to applying but most do not.

Once a place has been offered there are only limited grounds under which the offer can be withdrawn. The child moving house is not one of them.

If the LA believe that the application was fraudulent or misleading and that the child was not actually living at the address given they can withdraw the offer even after the child starts at the school. Your family member therefore needs to make sure she can show that they were genuinely living at this address.

I am aware of one or two LAs that say they will withdraw the offer if you move after the offer is made but before the start of term. Such policies appear to be a clear breach of the Admissions Code and I would expect to be able to have the place restored if that happened.

The paperwork needed to prove where you live varies from LA to LA. It should be in the admissions booklet on their website.

Great thread- even if it has sent me into a bit of a panic about it all!

DD1 will be a 2012 admission so I guess I should start looking into it all. I kind of had it in my mind she would go to the school down the road where her Pre-school is.
How do you find out what the school's catchment area are?
How likely are you to get your first choice/nearest school?

I know I need to pick 3 but I'm not sure I really have even a second choice!?

arrghh I'm not ready for this... She's only just started Pre-school.

I am so glad I live in Scotland and didn't have to go through all this angst. Not saying it is perfect - but the English system seems to be guaranteed to induce a nervous breakdown.

The system in Glasgow is simple: you register at your local school and you can put in a placing request to got to an "out of (fixed) catchment" school, which, in the vast majority of cases is accepted.

Plus you effectively have two "catchment" schools: the non-denominational school or the Catholic school.

prh - Panic over, talked to the lovely secretary & she has said, no extra form needed, she just rings and checks with the vicar. I can't see anything about the disability angle on the LAs website so I'll just put it on the form anyway. :o

Thanks prh - that sounds mostly reassuring given she's definitely living 100m from the school and will be for at least 6 months (signed an 18month contract but landlord can still break it).

I get all this fun next year - if the local school is forced to have a bulge class this year and next as it has for the last 4 years, I should be fine, but the school is now campaigning to keep its playground space and stay small.

What happens when a LA doesn't have enough places? Lambeth is expected to be about 800 primary places short. Can it offer you a place in a different borough and expect you to take it? There's an undersubscribed school with problems just across the borough boundary from me - could they meet their obligations by offering places there?

wow, we made discussions of the day, never done that before :)

prettybird what happens if more people put their name down for the nearest school than there are places for? That's the problem we have in England, in many places there are too many children and not enough places (hence one of our local schools being asked to take 120 last year, not 90 as normal). Even the scary bad school close to us is over subscribed. And I wouldn't describe where we live as urban. It's not even suburban, it's more like semi rural but a commuter town for London so very full.

Pigleychez - If your LA operates catchment areas they will appear in the admissions booklet and/or on their website. However, most don't operate formal catchment areas in which case you need to find out the distance from school for the last child admitted. There is no guarantee that the distance will be the same next year. Indeed, living in catchment does not guarantee a place. How likely you are to get your first choice school varies hugely depending on where you live. In some areas 85% or more get their first choice. In others, particularly parts of London, it is much lower than that.

notcitrus - If they don't have enough places they have to find some! There are a number of ways they could do that and yes, if there is an undersubscribed school in another LA nearby they can send children there. If you are near the boundary don't forget that you are entitled to apply for schools outside your LA's area if you want. Indeed, you can do that even if you don't live near the boundary!