As we are in admissions season again...some top tips for first timers

[BetsyBoop]

On this thread a while ago, I posted some top tips on the admissions system, which people found useful, so here they are again...

1. Visit every school local to you & make your own mind up - don't go on reputation/gossip/Ofsted reports/league tables
2. Find out how likely it is you stand a chance of a place by looking at the last few years admissions (eg what category & distance)
3. Put the schools in your genuine order or preference (schools are not allowed to operate a "first preference first" system, despite what people tell you)
4. Use all your preferences - but be realistic about your chances of getting a place - don't waste a preference on a hell-will-freeze-over-first option.
5. Always include one "safe" option (even if it is as last preference) which you are okay with & are pretty much guaranteed to get into (ie "catchment" school) . (Or you run the risk of getting a random "worse" school miles away if you don't get any of your preferences)
6. You will not be able to bully the LA/school/appeals panel into giving you the school you want by only putting that school on the application form & refusing places at other schools.
7. Read the admission code - you need to know the "rules" as if the rules are broken it gives you a valid reason to appeal.
8. Submit any exceptional social/medical circumstances evidence with your initial application, whether or not you are fairly confident you will get a place anyway - much easier than trying to win an appeal based on this later (which will typically fail if it is an infant class size* appeal)

• "infant class size" =YR/Y1/Y2 classes can have a maximum of 30 pupils per teacher

Hi there, I am new to this site. I have logged on because I am in a complete mess about what to do.

I live in Surrey, there is a good school across the road from me often over subscribed. My OH was not happy though and did not want to send my DD there. We grew up in the Richmond Borough and he was sulking about the schools there. I told him we have to lump it this is how it works, we have no other choice.

My mum has recently moved onto a boat (mid Dec) and in the last innings has thrown in a curve ball. She has said I can buy into her house (my old family home). Move there, sell my house and give her the money.

Her house is in the catchment for 3 outstanding Schools in the Richmond Borough.

Firstly, I am confused about moving as there are a lot of conditions and I am not sure where it leaves me. Secondly, I have no time left to go and see these schools as like someone said earlier they are hugely popular and they had open days which were booked / done ages ago. Thirdly I have absolutely no chance of getting a coucil tax bill in my name for living in that house before Jan 15th.

Please - any advice would be of great assistance. My head is all over the place and I only have a week to get it sorted.

You're not going to be able to move, change all documents in a week.

You need to apply from the address where you live now and, if you decide to move, consider making a late application once you have moved.

You need to decide whether you want to move or not and, if you do, into your mum's house before thinking about schools.

Goodness, nothing like a bit of pressure!

Would you want to move into your mums house?

Why doesn't your DH like the house across the road from you?

What are the conditions you mention?

Hi its a nightmare i know.

I just got off the phone with the Richmond council, they have told me they have a system in place for people like me. They said that I have to get the surrey forms, and put the richmond schools on there with a letter explaining the situation and make sure they get the form by 15th Jan. Then Surrey will forward the form onto Richmond who will begin to process.

They said they have a deadline for documentation of Feb 17th which means i need to get mortage acceptance or tenancy aggreement over to them by then and then all should be well.

The 3 Ofsted 1 schools are the nearest to her house so they recommended i put those down, Surrey has 3 boxes, Richmond 6 so they said i will only be able to put 3. She did say to put 1 of the surrey schools down just in case things dont go according to plan but then when heard surrey only ahs 3 boxes she changed her mind.

DH does not like the area we live in, there is a block of flats directly behind my house which is classes as 'impoverished' and some quite rough people live there. My DH is being a snob as he doesnt want DS growing up being friends with hooligans. I aggree to a degree but I dont really mind as long as he is happy but I do want DS to have the best chance in life.

My mums house is the house i grew up in so i know the area is extrememly posh and very lovely to live in and it would be lovely to live there, reason we moved out of the area is the same reason all of my friends have bought out of the area - becasue to buy there is eyewateringly expensive!

The difficulties are the conditions. I would really prefer to rent my mums house, rent mine out for a few years until we could make a bit more money from it. Much quicker than the mortgage process too. My mum wants me to sell mine, give her £200k to buy roughly 40% of her house. i.e. ridiculously complicated and leaves me not actually owning anything outright. Not to mention how she will get the £200k, it will be a family loan of sorts. All very complex and under the iron fist that is my grandfather. So until he says go we cant do anything.

Nightmare.

At least I know the process I have to follow now, once a decision is made on wheter we are moving or not.

What a headache.

You could very easily end up stuck at your mum's house (if you wanterd to leave but she couldn't buy you out) how would you feel about that?

How would you feel about living with your mum anyway - have you done it as a couple / family before?

(I've spend 5 and 4 months living with both my parents and DP's. I really wouldn't want top do it permanently, with no option to get out!)

A more sensible option would be to rent somewhere that's not your mum's house, in the catchment area. (If the council accepts that?).

Would that be possible?

Has your mum thought about what happens if you want to move on? How will you? Does she have the cash to buy you out?

What about secondary schools?

Basically, my mums house is technically empty. She moved onto a barge in December which is why all this has come about. I definitely would not want to live with my mum permanently - we never did get on in close quarters as she is nuts!

I would however be happy for her to stay at the house for extended periods if needed (for instance a particularly cold winter on the boat).

The idea renting from her and renting mine is easier on both of us. My mum owns her house outright. I have £110k in mine, but have such bad credit i am unlikely to get another mortgage. If i sell my house and give her my nest egg (£110k) towards part of her house, she wants me to get the other £90k from my grandad as a sort of mortgage and give her the money. She wants to then gift me to maximum out of her house annually, I think its £7k at the moment.

As it is i just dont know how its going to work. She is a nightmare and getting any info is like getting blood out of a stone. I think the only possibility for me to get the schools in time is to draw up a tenancy agreement in the short-term (maybe a year or two), rent mine out and then organise my buying into her house down the line. She wont want to do this though as she wants the money to buy either a flat or another boat.

The secondary schools are a similar story. When i lived there i went to Waldegrave which is 1st in the borough. But all girls so DS couldnt go there. but again nearest mixed state is also outstanding. So would be happy to stay there. Plus mums house is (slightly) bigger and she has planning permission to extend upstairs so more bedrooms = staying there a lot longer.

On iPhone, will read the detail later

Just one thing though, are you sure your DH isn't just being a horrendous snob? (sorry but it's worth considering before you uproot your whole family!)

yes he is being a horrendous snob, but there is no arguing the schools are fantastic and it is a better quality of life where I grew up. Hence the price tag.

I moved there when I was 12 from an impoverished area and I thought everyone there were snobs but in fact its a very close knit community so if we are there when DS starts reception, plus I already know a lot of people there and DH's family are very nearby and his mother has been a godsend with both of us working. DS actually goes to nursery near her as she drops / picks him up most days (she is an angel, we are very lucky) so it would be a lot easier for her to help if DS school was near as it would be whereas one near us is about 6 miles away :(

If you were doing this 6 months ago i would say, yes do it, but I would be very concerned that you now have not got enough time to get things organised by the cut off date of the 17th Feb.
If you put down Richmond schools on the admission form by the 15th Jan and if something goes wrong and you do not meet the 17th Feb deadline you will be left with admission preferences that you have little chance of being allocated a place at. You will also not be able to change the preferences to Surrey schools after the 15th January without becoming a late application and only be considered after all others, which also means that you have little chance of getting a school that you want.
I suspect also that whilst Richmond will accept a 1 year rental arrangement, providing it is properly drawn up, that they will be concerned if you try and buy immediately that you may only own 40% of a house, thus it is not in your name, it will still be in your mothers name. The natural assumption will be that you are doing this simply to get a place at an outstanding school. So if you decide to do it, rental is definitely the better option as far as school admissions are concerned but please remember that you do need to also do something very quickly about renting out your home, to allay suspicions of just looking for the right address.

Yes I agree! I have to find out first what my option are regarding the house. The plan that my mum has for me to buy in doesn't wash. Like you said the 40% is not enough put the house in my name which was my reservation in the first place. I know what you're saying about the time. I think if all is decided I should be able to get my grandads lawyers to draw up a tenancy agreement pretty quickly.
Thank you for your advice on my place. It definitely won't be sitting there idle as I won't be able to pay my mum the rent for her house.
Once my grandad has had a think about it all I will speak to him and talk through possible scenarios. Hopefully all decided over the weekend and I can get the ball rolling with the lawyers on Monday.
My other concern was after seeing posts on here about people being out of catchment for any school but when I asked the council they said they couldn't guarantee anything as they won't know how many admissions they would have but the senior person there said I would almost certainly get one of the three that I wanted.
I definitely won't be putting my application in until I am certain all the paperwork can be obtained within the time frame!
Providing all goes to plan and I apply to surrey with the richmond schools, do you think its worth me putting three extra choices down in my attached letter so that when it goes to richmond they have something in case I can't get into the top 3 (Richmond would normally have 6 choices on their forms)?

I'm still concerned about what will happen if you want out? How would you be able to get your money out of the house?

Also what happens if your mum decides that actually she wants to live with you in a few years - perhaps when she gets too old to live on a boat?

Have you had a look to see if you could afford to rent round there by the way? (Just exploring options!)

Ok, we have decided that the best thing to do is draw up a 1 year tenancy agreement and I will move in soon.

There are a few bits which need doing to both her house and mine before they are suitable to be leased so we are going to work our way through those and then rent my place out.

Say I get £1000pcm for mine, I still have to pay mortgage which is £650pcm. The idea is to rent from mum for about £1300 so I will be paying roughly £1000pcm. The average rental for a house her size is about £1700pcm, which I would not be able to afford. Plus there aren't any on the market.

The plan will be to extend hers, after looking at the plans, this will turn the house into a 4 bed, and it will be worth a lot more, then eventually sell both and buy two properties in the area (a flat for mum and a house for me) but I think we have said we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

I know what you are saying about mum moving in. I am much happier now we are going to see how things go over a year, give us plenty of time to things out without me selling up and putting all eggs in one basket!

Thanks for all your advice, I will let you know how I get on!

Wish me luck :)

That sounds like a much sensible plan, well done for working it all out so quickly! Good luck

*much more!

A quick update - the council admissions team has phoned me with an apology and confirmation that we are in catchment for the school that they had previously said we were out of catchment for. I am very relieved. Thank you again for all the help on here (especially prh and admissions , it was much appreciated and very useful.

admissions) is what I meant to write.

The Council has still not added our road to catchment database, despite promising in writing that it would be done by the end of Jan. I've complained to the Adjudicator about mal-administration of key systems and mis-information.

Bumping this thread because we're at the start of the appeal season.

afterglow - You're kidding? I am horrified. I presume this means you didn't get a place so you should definitely appeal.

prhbridge - I won't know about places until later on in April, I think they send out notifications on April 20th. I just lost my temper when I realised they still hadn't done what they said they would.