As we are in admissions season again...some top tips for first timers

[BetsyBoop]

On this thread a while ago, I posted some top tips on the admissions system, which people found useful, so here they are again...

1. Visit every school local to you & make your own mind up - don't go on reputation/gossip/Ofsted reports/league tables
2. Find out how likely it is you stand a chance of a place by looking at the last few years admissions (eg what category & distance)
3. Put the schools in your genuine order or preference (schools are not allowed to operate a "first preference first" system, despite what people tell you)
4. Use all your preferences - but be realistic about your chances of getting a place - don't waste a preference on a hell-will-freeze-over-first option.
5. Always include one "safe" option (even if it is as last preference) which you are okay with & are pretty much guaranteed to get into (ie "catchment" school) . (Or you run the risk of getting a random "worse" school miles away if you don't get any of your preferences)
6. You will not be able to bully the LA/school/appeals panel into giving you the school you want by only putting that school on the application form & refusing places at other schools.
7. Read the admission code - you need to know the "rules" as if the rules are broken it gives you a valid reason to appeal.
8. Submit any exceptional social/medical circumstances evidence with your initial application, whether or not you are fairly confident you will get a place anyway - much easier than trying to win an appeal based on this later (which will typically fail if it is an infant class size* appeal)

• "infant class size" =YR/Y1/Y2 classes can have a maximum of 30 pupils per teacher

Here's one I'd not heard of before. If you get into a faith school but you're not of the faith, it may be that siblings are lower on the admissons criteria than baptised children (even baptised in a different faith to that of the school). A friend's son got an in-year admission into an oversubscribed catholic school and was a bit gobsmacked when she realised that it was unlikely his younger sister would be joining him a couple of years later.

Hampshire will still take numbers above PAN if a twin is the last admitted child.

Thankyou for this thread. I've just rang my LEA (Birmingham) perference packs will be sent starting 10th October, they have my DD details.

I've checked websites of two schools and now know their open days. I'm at a loss about 3rd preference, feel quite sick about whole process TBH.

Thankyou Theas18 for your words of wisdom (there's always someone with a shed load of common sense here)

Thankyou Northernlurker Panelmember prh47bridge and everyone else for sound advice.

On twins - Hampshire may well be the LEA that was mentioned on MN before when the question came up of what happens when there is one place left and the next children on the priority list are twins/triplets. As I've said, what they are doing is not compatible with the current admissions code (although the current consultation on a new admissions code may bring changes). Nobody should assume that their LEA does the same thing. As always, check.

On faith schools - It is very important to check the admissions criteria carefully. Some faith schools have 'open places' for which the criteria about church affiliation etc don't apply. Other don't. Make it clear on their supplementary application form which type of place you're applying for. Under the church affiliation criteria, CofE schools generally ask for evidence of church attendance, being involved in parish life etc but catholic schools often ask for evidence of when the child was baptised.

Some faith schools - especially those without open places - may well fill all their places under the church affiliation criteria and before they get to those applications being made under the distance to school criterion (which is often the lowest priority category). So, at those schools, applying under 'distance to school' may be a very long shot indeed. Even if a child is admitted under that criterion, younger siblings may not get a place if the admissions criteria place them below all the other children (siblings or not) who are applying under the church affiliation criteria. Again, check this.

Sorry if this is a stupid qu, we're also doing this first time. We're in catchment for our village school which is also popular in the wider area. I need to do proper look rounds but I'll be surprised if this doesn't end up being our first choice anyway. Second choice is a neighbouring village, different catchment, also popular. Third choice would be neighbouring village other direction, different catchment but we're closer than to second choice and it hasn't been full for 2011 entry unlike the other 2 which were oversubscribed.

All of them have fairly standard criteria so far as I can see - looked after children / catchment siblings / catchment / non catchment siblings, choices 1 & 2 are CofE but we are regular church members in a CofE church so that should be OK.

Can I reasonably assume that we will get choice 1 as we are catchment or is there a realistic possibility that we won't get in even though we're catchment? 2012 entry is looking large but not quite as large as 2011 when they took 2 out of catchment. (Previous years they've taken pretty much all applicants so the boom years seem to be just hitting). Obviously this is just based on people we know and who they know in the village though, not scientific knowledge of all children in the catchment.

Oh and

Dollydoodledo - Check what Ealing LEA say about proof of address. Most LEAs won't accept an application if there is no confirmed address and you can't provide evidence of ownership/tenancy/utility bills/child benefit paid there etc. But there should also be a Fair Access Protocol which stipulates how children will be found school places outside the usual admissions round.

LovelyBunchofCoconuts - As per my post above, you need to check all the schools' admission criteria and the information in the LEA's admissions booklet about how many children were admitted last year under each priority category (and the distance at which the last place was awarded). That should enable you to make an educated guess of how likely you are to get a place at each school. You need to make sure that you apply for at least one school which you'd be content to accept and where you're sure of getting a place. If you don't, you will be allocated the nearest school with a vacancy, which could be miles away and/or less good than any of your choices. As others have said, beware of making your choice solely on Ofsted ratings - in the first place because Ofsted ratings go up and down and can be misleading and also because there simply aren't enough 'outstanding' schools for everyone to get a place in one.

My advice is when looking round a school think what is the best for your child. Not what you think is known as the best school. I went with gut instinct for my DD who is very sensitive. We did not go for the competitive highest achieving and oversubscribed large primary but a small village school - actually a Forest School with lots of outdoor activities which she loves, and therefore is much happier in a green area and smaller classes.

For me, I'd have gone with the highest achieving school - but I know my daughter wouldn't cope with the competition at 4.

Also do note how happy and settled the children are when you visit.

Panelmember - I think it must have been, because they will also take numbers beyond PAN for 'same cohort (non-twin) sibling'.

Itsatiggerday - It all depends (obviously) on whether there are more applications from within catchment than there are places. Being in catchment isn't always a guarantee of getting a place.

What's the admission number? Is there any risk that catchment non-siblings like your child could be squeezed out by catchment siblings? It's unusual for an intake to be made up entirely of siblings but it can happen if (say) there is a bulge class a couple of years ahead of the new intake. Otherwise, the other risk is that there are more catchment non-siblings than there are available spaces once the siblings have been admitted. In that scenario, presumably, places will be allocated according to distance to school. The admissions criteria should say if this is the case. They will also show whether your being church members will place you in a higher priority group.

Lougle - Yes, when we talk about 'twins' that usually includes 'siblings who are close enough in age to be in the same school year'.

Right. Taking a break. Back tonight.

Panelmember - How do I get the LEAs admissions booklet to check last years? On all three of my choices the admissions criteria is children in care first, then on religion basis, then on distance, then the non-religious.

The third choice is the school I would be content with if we failed on the other two (it is also the nearest)

I am a bit nervous about it all really as every single school in my area is a religious school, we are not religious, do not attend church and DD is not baptised.

The LA admissions booklet should be on their website. However, it may not include the information you need for admissions to faith schools last year. If it doesn't check the school's website. If there is nothing there ring the school and they should be able to tell you.

You're all making me nervous. I did mine at the weekend as the choices were fairly easy. Catholic school at number one and two local schools at 2 and 3. We're a pretty safe bet for the Catholic school but if it goes tits up the other two are dicier (next door but outside catchment for number 2). Other schools in the area are a rubbish one and ones that require a decent drive, too far too walk.

It's going to be a long wait until April...

bebeballroom - If you let me know the LA/school involved I'll take a look and see if your disability will affect things.

PRH - I cannot find it anywhere on the website. I take it I am meant to be looking on the county councils website? If I call the school do I just ask how many children last year were admitted who had no religion?

It's a tricky one for me as I am very athiest and kind of don't want DD to be exposed to all the religion but the classes and the school is smaller and more family orientated and I feel the smaller class sizes will be beneficial to my DDs personality traits (very shy, hates large groups)

It's going to be the best of a bad bunch for us I think.

thanks for all this.. I'm also a first timer

I've already done our application for ds, but I've done it online and I can change the schools and the order they're in until Jan 15th. I've now started visiting schools...

I'm really confused about all this talk of catchment areas. I called our LEA admissions department and I was told that at Primary education there is not catchment area as such. The admissions criteria for the school I really want are 1) Looked after children 2) children with exceptional circumstances 3) siblings of children already at the school 4) children for whom the school is their nearest school 5) any other applicant based on distance from the school. Last year there were 17 siblings and 13 children for whom the school was their nearest. There were no other children from any other category. The furthest anyone lived from the school was 800m, we're 900m.

Does that mean I don't have a cat in hell's chance of getting in? Have I wasted a choice but putting it down?

Is anyone else finding local schools quite awkward about open days? I've phoned a couple, and they both said 'it's a formal day, you have to book a place, and please don't bring any children with you'. Er, how am I supposed to arrange that with a four year old and a 13 month old ? Luckily, the school I'm most likely to send DS to (v local, outstanding Ofsted, pretty much guaranteed place) has a much more casual (and welcoming) approach.

Seeing what ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts says about the admissions criteria for her choices reminds me of something. I come across a lot of criteria that go something like:

• looked after children
• special medical needs
• siblings
• distance

What this actually means is:

• looked after children
• special medical needs
• siblings
• everyone else

with distance being used as a tie breaker. So if there are more siblings than places they will use distance to decide who gets in.

Which brings me to another useful tip - if distance is used as a tie breaker check carefully how it is measured. Many LAs use straight line distance which is easy to understand and administer. Many other LAs use shortest walking route or similar, sometimes with restrictions as to which roads and paths can be used as part of the route. Check your LA's rules and understand how it affects you. It can make a significant difference.

Also, a question about SEN. DS has possible AS (we're about to start the assessment process), but he has no dx at the moment and his current 'symptoms' are very mild (any school would probably see him as a dream pupil at the moment - but I'm aware that this may change as he gets older). Anyway, the question is - should I try to talk to the schools' SENCOs before I submit an application? Would they be able to tell me anything useful if I don't have a dx? Is it worth trying to make a separate appointment or just having a word at the open day? Any advice gratefully received.

Headfairy - Where did you find the number for your LEA admissions dept?

Nom - We have booked a 1:1 appt with the headmaster of one (I missed their open day) and he said not to take my DD but I'll be taking my month old baby along. I'll also be taking my baby to one open day and one of the schools hasn't even decided on a date for the open day and told me to just buy the local paper to find out when it is. So yes quite awkward here too.

Good point, prh47bridge. They may also, like our local school, use 'living in the ecclesiastical parish' first (esp if CofE school), rather than distance as the crow flies. After the usual looked after and SN criteria, ours has parish, then siblings, then distance.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts - There should be an admissions booklet on the LA's website which may have this information. If you can't find it or it doesn't contain the information, I would ring the school and ask how many children were admitted from the non-faith categories last year.

headfairy - Many (most?) LAs don't have formal catchment areas. Yours is obviously one of them. Unfortunately some people confuse matters by talking about catchment areas even when dealing with LAs that don't have them. From the information you've posted it sounds like this school is a bit of a long shot but a lot will depend on how many siblings apply and whether or not it is your nearest school.

NomDePC - It can't do any harm to talk to the SENCO but your son's possible AS won't make any difference to the admissions process as it hasn't been diagnosed.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts - Again, try your LA's website. If there isn't a specific number for admissions just ring the council and ask for them.

The distinction about catchment areas is an important one.

A catchment area is fixed.

If what people mean by catchment area is actually the distance at which the last place was awarded last year then (obviously) this can vary from year to year, depending on (amongst other things) how many looked after children, those with exceptional needs and siblings were admitted, leaving more (or fewer) places for the 'everyone else' category.

prh47bridge sorry, I didn't mean whether it would affect the admissions procedure. I was really thinking about how best to assess the schools' attitude towards SEN and the support that they could offer my child (if needed), so that I can make the right decision about which school to put first on the form.