Meeting with headmistress - how would you handle this?

[donteatyourteawithnoknickerson]

I have a meet tomorrow morning with my daughter's head to discuss an issue the other week. DD (7) was left in the playground at homeitme, alone, with no supervision and without any teacher making sure she was safe.

I was running late from an appointment with DD2's eye consultant and he was telling me all about surgery DD2 is due to have. I got to school maybe 5-10 mins late and all the time I was on my way I was trying to ring school to let them know but the line was busy. When I got there DD1 was alone, crying, in the playground. I was later told that teachers had not checked all children were safe, and had gone back to classroom.

I went straight into office for an explanation. DD1's teacher came out and said DD1 should not have left her (which I have spoken to DD about) and it was DDs fault for not going back to classroom. I refused to accept this and wanted teacher to accept responsibility as the safeguarder of my child. Teacher started to quote policy at me - I responded by saying that you can deviate from policy if the course of action is justified and safer. I said to teacher that i needed to make sure she was safe. Teacher started to cry .

I said that I accepted her apology (which she did do eventually) and would leave it at that. However, DDs other teacher (they have a job share situation) has started to make DD1 hold her hand every time she goes out of school and has actively said to her "so you don't get lost again". I feel this is unreasonable especially since it has only started more than a week after the event. Teacher is asking for DD (according to DD) in front of the whole class and (in my opinion) making a target of her.

I have a mmeting in the morning - how would you handle this?

But even if the OP was late due to smoking crack round the back of Oddbins, the child should not be punished or made to face consequences for their parent's behaviour (by being singled out in front of peers); nor should their safety be compromised.

We have teachers on the school gate at home time, so that a child cannot leave without an adult. Does your school do that OP? It's another way of securing the playground so that it is a safe area to wait.

How was the child punished, sorry?

The child is not being punished. The teacher is making sure it doesn't happen again surely?

Obviosuly OP you soudl remain calm but you need to ask what the policy is for letting children out at the end o the day and what the school are going to do to ensure that nno child not only your dd is not left uncollected and unsupervised.

My children's school only allow children out of the waiting area once a prent has been sighted. Any uncollected children after 10 mins are taken to the after school care club (and we are charged if this happens more than once). This is a bit of a pain for me as I have to rush early from work to collect dd who is in Year 5 and take her to ballet which is literally in the next street to the school then go back to school an hour later when ds's club finishes but I prefer this policy in place.

Ds is in Year 3 and I know he would be distressed if he was left alone at the end of the day. What happened to the OP's dd isn't acceptable.

I was once half an hour late collecting my dd. I witnessed a car accident involving another mum from school and stayed with her until help arrived (the driver of the other car involved was being aggressive.) In my panic I could not find my mobile phone and indeed I don't actually have the school number in the phone. When the other mum calmed down she phoned the school and luckily managed to get through. The school assured us that our children were fine to stay there for as long as it took.

To single out a child and humiliate them in front of their peers- even mildly- is a punishment. To take the child aside and talk to them about holding hands and the importance of not leaving the teacher wouldn't be.

"To take the child aside and talk to them about holding hands and the importance of not leaving the teacher" = that would help a child, but it wouldn't guarantee the child wouldn't wander off looking for mum, and the OP has mentioned that the child has SEN.
IOur policy is we will take the childrenout to their parent / carer but 60 children exiting through one door at the same time with 60 sets of parents crowded round makes it very difficult to make sure each child is reunited with he right parent, especially at the beginning of the school year when you haven't matched all the children with their parents/granny/childminder. It always takes so long to get them all out of the room. If we come out in a line and I "post" each child off to each parent we might have behaviour issues at the back of the line which is still in the classroom unsupervised. If we all come out together I can't keep 30 children close and not let them leave my side until I notice the right parent. If I say "off you go if you can see your mum but come back to me if you can't find her" they all disperse around the playground and I can't kep my eyes on them all to check they are actually reuniting with a parent, not wandering over to the nursery playground where they think mum will be. Last week I got moaned at for being slow getting my class out; we always set off and open the doors at 3pm, but it can take 5 - 7 minutes before I hand over the last child. If I have a child whose parent has phoned to say they'll be late I make sure they hodl my hand even if they don't have special needs or I can't guarantee they won't wander over to chat to a friend and the playground is so full and busy they could slip away. I feel what ever I do I'd be wrong!

Not to mention the daft beggars who send a friend or someone they vaguely know to pick up a child, and then everyone gets arsey when you won't release a child to a person you don't know and have not been notified about.
So they have to stay until everyone has been collected, and you then go to the office with the child and the stranger to phone, only to have the mother shriek at you that YABU and of course it's OK.
OP, go talk to the head and then tell us what the outcome is. You don't need advice, you sound very competent to put your own argument and points.

""To take the child aside and talk to them about holding hands and the importance of not leaving the teacher" = that would help a child, but it wouldn't guarantee the child wouldn't wander off looking for mum, and the OP has mentioned that the child has SEN."

Agreed, but neither would discussing it in front of peers (the apparent course of action). In fact, I don't think it's ever appropriate to speak to a child in this way in front of other children, regardless of learning need.

Back to the teachers now feeling they need witnesses to what they are saying and doing.
How does the OP know what is happening with regard to her child being signalled out, is it happening as she reported or is that the way that the child is perceiving the support?

No, it matters not if the teachers feel they need witnesses; if this singling out in front of peers is happening, it is bad practice, and feeling that they need witnesses does not justify it.

But is it actually happening, or is the OP reacting to something her child has told her without verification from another source?
People get defensive when attacked, especially if they were following guidelines set by the school. Even if they are told to ignore them by a parent.
It will be an interesting meeting with the HT, I wonder if the OP will come back and update.

Make sure you get the blood and sweat to go with the tears. These teachers! We MUST make sure we get our pound of flesh out of them...

That remains to be seen; as I stated in my earlier post, the OP should relay to the head her DD's version of events and ask her to keep an eye on it. Let's hope it's not happening, as a teacher should know never to humiliate a child in front of others.

My comment was made in the knowledge that teachers, like my sister, can never do right in the eyes of some parents. I hope the op gets sent away with a flea in her ear. Utterly disgusting to make a teacher cry. Vile.

I'm a teacher and I agree with the OP.

We don't know exactly what was said.

Well good luck this morning - hope you can make her cry again! So to be clear - you want her to let your child out normally, like the other children, and not make her a target, but then if you're late again, and your child still won't go back into the school as per the rules, and the rules for KS2 at any school I've ever heard of, you want the teacher to go outside and check the playground in case you and your child have done the same thing again - after a reasonable pause, so that it doesn't look as though she's singling your child out or giving your child special treatment? Even though she will be giving your child special treatment.

Good luck!

Cancel the meeting. What are you hoping to gain from it?

The school have learned that your DD needs additional care at home-time (although it seems rare that it'll be needed if you are seldom late) but for your part you need to have a friend about who can grab your DD and hold her til you get there, IF something should make you late again.

I haven't read the whole thread but personally I would have called the school ahead letting them know that I will be late to make them aware and not let DS (6.5) out.

At hometime there are a lot of parents/grandparents and sometimes other people picking up children and I can imagine that this can be a busy time for the teacher to keep track, especially at the beginning of the year with a new class. I often heard DS's teacher ask a child 'can you see your grown up?' and then let them go if they say yes. Last year a friend found her DS running around the field when she was 2 min late. She pointed that out to the teacher - but you DD sitting there crying should have been noticed! Could she not have just gone back in?

On the other hand, for the teacher to be defenseve and start quoting policy is sad. My DS's teacher last year was good at talking herself out of anything but couldn't admit a mistake. I would be able to trust the teacher more if s/he could admit to a mistake and say sorry.

My dd's teacher welled up during a meeting with me - she was in the wrong and I wouldn't be fobbed off (though was v polite). It made our relationship better in the end - because she knew how angry I was and appreciated my being polite.

Because our conversation was emotional (I also welled up), I wrote her a thank you note, saying how much I appreciated her honesty and that I felt completely happy that we had resolved the issue. I really did admire her, actually - it's a rare person who can admit a fault.

OP, now you have made a stand, the teachers are going to be extra-careful. So I would say to dd that they are just making sure the same thing doesn't happen again.

In the meeting, I'd acknowledge the fault (being late) and tell the teachers that you have impressed on dd what she is to do in the event of a similar situation. I'd also say that she is getting embarrassed by teacher2 commenting in front of the class, and that hopefully you can all work together to manage it so that she doesn't need to do that. Be v v polite and conciliatory - because your dd's teacher1 sounds nice.

Re handover to parents at the end of the day - we also have the long complicated handovers to parents in KS1, and now have several parents complaining because the teachers don't chat and give feedback to them at the end of each day! We truly cannot win.

Ok. Update (if you want to hear it without actually totally misinterpreting me).

Spoke to DD's teacher - I thought it was courteous to let her know that I was speaking to headmistress today and also to point out that I had no intention of "making a complaint" - which believe it or not, flamethrowers, was never my intention. I also asked her if she was ok - she asked if i was ok (as I was, amazingly, upset at the time too), and all was well there.

Went to HM - we discussed the issue, the fact that I am rarely late, the fact that this event hasn't happened before, how unfortunate it was. I made it clear that while I was upset, I wasn't there to throw stones or continue the issue unnecessarily, but to see if there was anything we could learn from it. I explained that I felt the fact that I couldn't get through on the phone was the cause of the entire problem, and we then talked about some sort of answering system (which someone here was kind enough to suggest) and decided that if the school was so busy that the phone was constantly engaged then it is highly likely that the messages wouldn't be listened to either.

I also pointed out that I had spoken to DD about her apparently wandering off - and that she shouldn't do this. We talked about DD's tendancy to not focus on the task in hand and however sweet this is, it's not always useful :).

Ultimately, there is now a plan to get a Teaching assistant to "sweep" the playground at hometime to make sure everyone has safely gone home. HM seemed to like this suggestion as it would give parents the opportunity to interact with teaching staff too.

So, a helpful meeting all round I think. To those people who offered constructive, helpful advice (whether you agreed with me or not) - thankyou. To those that just offered insults, often without reading the full thread - I'm sorry you misunderstood my intentions.

:)

Glad it was positive and I hope the comments to your dd by teacher 2 stop asap!

I would check exactly what the official school policy is. Often handing over to a parent happens in KS1 but not in KS2.
Does your daughter have a diagnosed SEN that the school is aware of?

Pleased the meeting went well OP.

I have an almost 8 year old with no SN and she would have burst into tears at this sort of situation.

Sounds like a possitive solution