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Primary education

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Private schools, wow what a difference! (Year 4)

365 replies

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 12:48

Got very disillusioned with DS?s ?outstanding? primary. First alarm bells started to ring in year 3, when every single day he?ll bring a drawing or a robot made of cardboard or a car made of boxes, you get the picture while he hardly got any homework. I tried talking to his teacher about it, but she was always very reassuring and said he is doing fine. I am a foreigner, so was not so familiar with a UK education system and thought the teacher knows what she is doing. Then in year 4 I found out about sets. Apparently my son is in a middle set for everything. According to teacher, he got an ability to be in a top set in a different class, but because his class is overall ?exceptionally bright?, the top set is working at a level of year 5, or even sometimes year 6. My son complains that on days that they got math (and they don?t do math every day), bottom set gets to ?play? on PCs ? they do educational games, middle set gets work to do on their own, and the teacher sits with the top set (5 kids out of a class of 35) and teaches them. If my son or anybody else gets ?stuck? on their work, the teacher with just get very stressed and will tell him in a raised voice just to get on with his work or read a book or draw something if he is finished. Bottom set gets a ?special? teacher to work with them a few times a week during literacy and math lessons. Children never move between sets. Sometimes my son finishes his work quickly and asks to listen or join with the top set, but teacher always gets annoyed and sends him back to his table.

I had a parents meeting with the teacher a few weeks ago, and raised all my concerns. I am very worried about the amount of stuff he is learning at school, as the 11+ is looming and only the top 5 kids are getting sufficient tutoring to pass the exam. The teacher agreed with me, and hinted that it will benefit my son to get a tutor or even better a private school. So off we went to look for a private. And all I can say is wow! We visited 4 schools in total. Class sizes vary from 16 to 22; 2 schools were selective, another 2 are not. But all 4 of the schools had a grammar pass rate between 90% and 85%. My son?s school sends around 6 kids out of 70 each year, so 3 kids per class. In all private schools that we visited all kids are taught by the same teacher at the same level. They also sit on their own desks facing the teacher, not in groups. Children get books for each subject, so the parent knows exactly what is covered at school on each given day, and will be able to go over it at home if needed. There is also an hour of homework every day and in year 5 schools run ?summer schools? to coach for 11+ exams. Some schools also had longer days in year 5 to cover the material quicker and start preparing for 11+ earlier in the year.

To be honest, the difference of standards and attainment really shocked me. How do they manage to teach every single kid in a classroom to the same level when a state school claims its impossible? Why state school cant just teach all kids at the same level, with kids all sitting and listening to the teacher instead of sitting in groups around round tables, sometimes with their backs to the blackboard? I really don?t get it. We are moving our son next week to a new school, wish I knew about the differences earlier, feeling guilty now for denying him a proper education for so many years.

OP posts:
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stoatsrevenge · 18/03/2011 21:39

Blurgh...... writing APP..... that's a w/e job for me!
Don't you ever wonder if that was actually written by a human being on our planet? Hmm

AbigailS · 18/03/2011 21:44

Certainly not written by anyone with any detailed knowledge of a six year old, stoatsrevenge Hmm
It must be that time of term, I've got my writing APPs to update this weekend too! Boy do I hate it. And I really ought to get round to marking the Y2 maths SATs that they finished earlier in the week, so not too much vino or I'll miss count scores.

myredcardigan · 18/03/2011 21:44

Apparently, it's supposed to simplify things! Hmm Grin

myredcardigan · 18/03/2011 21:46

And unfortunately for me, it's more than updating as we have been late to start the writing. Had the maths in place for a couple of years and the ncmsdn,/ but have just started the writing.

AbigailS · 18/03/2011 21:50

Hmmm! What is the definition of simplify in their dictionary? Bl##dy paper trail. Luckily as member of SLT and with many years experience as assessment co-ordinator I'm getting a little rebellious and adapting some of the APP sheets to suit me and my class! So it won't take as long as it did last time Shhh! Don't tell OFSTED or the LA Wink

MigratingCoconuts · 19/03/2011 08:12

myredcardigan I was beintg slightly tongue in cheek as this wouls never be practicallly done.

I was trying to highlight that all your issues with state education are simply funding related.

BTW, private education does take resources away from the state sector: engaged parents, children of high ability, teachers for a start.... all of whom would be invaluable in ensuring that the system worked to its very best....

seeker · 19/03/2011 08:24

"That said, DD1 has just got into grammar school - and from a state school and all, who would have thunk it? wink"

Oh dear, breadandbutterfly - do you think he'll cope? Grin

FedUpWithSchools · 19/03/2011 09:28

Also - unlike the OP, I love the fact they do loads of making stuff, craft, music etc etc activities - they really enjoy it and learn loads.

breadandbutterfly, I also love the fact that in the private school they do a lot of creative stuff, like all kids take part in drama productions, have a "proper" art teacher, all play musical instruments and got numerous sports activities that I had listed before. They also go on field trips in UK and abroad, horse riding, and all have a chance to represent the school in sports unlike his state school. However in my post I was focusing on the difference in teaching. For example in a state school they would sometimes skip math to finish another robot, but in a private school they'll have 2 hours of math 4 times a week and 2 hours of literacy 4 times a week, when teacher is making sure that they are actually learning and not drawing pictures of Pokemon or paint the pots while a small group of kids is taken aside and taught algebra.

OP posts:
MigratingCoconuts · 19/03/2011 09:55

Gosh, fedup how did you find time to visit every single private school and every single state school in the country on which to base your findings here?

BTW I think you missed out the one my kids go to....

crunchbag · 19/03/2011 10:12

fedup, the thing is your son hasn't even started there yet, sofar you are basing your opinions on what you have heard and read and maybe seen a snapshot of.

Also 'all have a chance to represent the school', how many actually get to do it?

You have been wowed, now start being objective and critical so that your son's needs will be met.

seeker · 19/03/2011 10:35

Of course they go on field trips abroad and ride horse - that's what your paying for!!AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!

Must go - ds id playing football for his (state) primary school this afternoon. ANd this evening I'm going to a concert at dd's friend's (state) secondary school. Her friend is playing the violin, and it shoulf be good - she's just passed grade 8 with distinction.

MigratingCoconuts · 19/03/2011 11:06

oh, but seeker I bet they were sitting on the top table and so are the only state school kids that were actually taught anything.....Wink

breadandbutterfly · 19/03/2011 12:30

OP - it does sound like your dc's school is a bit poor, though not because of the art activities per se, more down to poor differentiation of work within the class. But it may not be a poor school, may just be one poor teacher - or maybe one teacher who isn't even aware anyone isn't happy.

First port of call should not be posting on here or changing schools - it shouldbe talking constructively to the teacher that your dc feels the work is too easy and wants something useful to do if finishes early. If that fails, speak to the head. My dc have had the odd duff teacher but then some superb ones too who could not be bettered in any private school.

I don't think it's the robots that's the problem, it's the lack of awareness of what the level of each student is and catering to that that's the problem. Our house is full of junk models - I have no problem with that as dcs love it and it is only one part of the overall experience.

I do urge you not to fetishise grammar schools though - the number of kids who get into them is not the sole determinant of quality of a school. Getting into one won't automatically mean everything in your ds's life is sorted for ever.

Clary · 19/03/2011 12:43

Hmm I can't imagine what's going on in my DCs' state junior then, what with the school productions and chances to represent the school at sports.

Top five at cross country in yr 5 and 6 are competing on Wednesday. DD and DS2 both play musical instruments too. How on earth has this happened?

Really OP your statements are so sweeping. I am talking here about my DCs' school. It's a state school. But I don't therefore assume that all state schools are the same. And neither shoudl you.

Wishign yr DS the best.

cory · 19/03/2011 12:43

"Getting into one won't automatically mean everything in your ds's life is sorted for ever."

Wise words there.

My MIL certainly thought she had dh's life sorted once she managed to get him a bursary to an academic private school. He had a very pleasant time there, but got mediocre O-levels and failed his A-levels. Even the best school can't sit a child's exams for him.

Clary · 19/03/2011 12:45

Oh yes and this week at the state comp where I work I watched a great production of Grease.

Some of the kids were playing musical instruments in the band too.

Ormirian · 19/03/2011 12:54

Ds1 is going to the spacecamp in Alabama next year.

Dd goes riding

Both of which I pay for. Still cheaper than private

Quattrocento · 19/03/2011 12:56

There seems to me to be a huge gulf between state primaries and private primaries

At secondary level I think the gap is narrower. Perfectly possible to access an academic education from a state school

But the foundations are learned at primary, and there is a startling difference. In the spirit of open-mindedness I visited my local (outstanding) primary school. The words forming in my head were 'over my dead body'. Shockingly low standards in just about everything. Sport was nonexistent, music ditto, library appalling, teachers couldn't spell (Big poster with a teacher-written caption 'Girafe') no foreign language teaching and the academic standards were lamentable.

MigratingCoconuts · 19/03/2011 13:00

Poor you.

Mine's great...all of what you have listed is present (my DD is learning french year 1)

Shows you what OFSTED know....

mrz · 19/03/2011 13:00

I would suggest that your experience isn't typical of many state primaries Quattrocento

OliPolly · 19/03/2011 13:08

This just really shows that the whole private vs state on MN can go both ways because of sweeping generalisations!

Anyone can find an example to fit a good state/private or a bad state/private!

mrz · 19/03/2011 13:15

agreed there is always going to be good and bad in both sectors and one person's good may be another's bad.

stoatsrevenge · 19/03/2011 13:20

I'm just computing the 4x 2 hours of maths and 4x 2 hours of literacy per week. How do they fit in the horse riding?

And fancy having a teacher who's making sure the children are learning. My goodness!

Also, I think, fedup, you need to look at the semantics in 'all children have a chance to represent the school in sports'. Surely they will all 'have a chance' because they're pupils at the school! Whether they're good enough to get on the team is another matter.

MigratingCoconuts · 19/03/2011 13:57

Exactly Polly and Mrz...but it think fedup is too excited about her new school to remember that...and to realise how insulting such sweeping generalisations can seem to others.

OliPolly · 19/03/2011 14:02

I can see why she is excited but I don't think she has gone about it the right way.

Then again, I don't think you are allowed to be excited about a private school on MN!