State education system, is it broken?

[minimathsmouse]

I believe the wheels have fallen off the state education system. You might not agree but I have read so many posts here from parents who have had and are still having huge problems with their child's school. Many people seem to have worries about standards of teaching, clashes of ideology and problems with making up the deficit with tutors and home study. Horrendous SEN provission, huge class sizes, lack of provision for able pupils, the list goes on. It is truely depressing to think so many children are not receiving the education they deserve.

How many people believe the whole system has failed? Are falling standards only due to poor teaching or wider problems that are not being addressed within the system?

I do not believe the whole system has failed. If it had then 93% of children would be poorly educated, whereas I think the actual figure is very much lower than that.

It's rare for people to start a thread when things go right. I wouldn't be all doom and gloom.

I don't think the whole system is failing. I teach in a very good school that I would love my dd to go to. Sadly it is broken in the school that she attends.

Waterlooroad, is it poor teaching or poor management?

Not ime. Yes, I know I keep posting about dd's shit headteacher, but that was one headteacher, in one of the three schools that one of my children has attended- so hardly proof that the whole system is broken.

I should start more threads about her wonderful secondary school who have put three years of fantastic work into building her confidence, who dealt with her school refusal, her panic attacks, her frequent illnesses and her disability- and who still manage to find the time to give her a very good education.

Ds is also happy and well supported at the junior school which has changed since dd's time. And they both attended a very cuddly infants school.

Both minimathsmouse although they have a new head who seems slightly better. The school is failing and seems paralysed to do anything about it.

I don't think the wheels have fallen off at all - I think there are some very disillusioned teachers and some struggling against some terrible odds to do the job they are born to do.

I just think the expectations and demands that parents place on educational facilities are unrealistic.

It certainly doesn't help when national broadsheets publish 'best school' tables and schools are unfairly judged on very narrow criteria.

I don't expect the school to provide the full education of my children - it is up to me to supplement where I need to and make sure my children have the necessary skills and reach their potential.

Sorry, this sounds a bit too 'peppy' ..

Cory It's great to hear that your daughter is benefiting from good teaching and pastoral care.

Waterloo, I hope the change of head teacher will be enough to propel the school forward and make changes. I wonder though how much can a head teacher do? What if they meet with resistance to change from staff and governors?

Itsjust, I agree that teachers are being prevented from doing their jobs effectively in some cases.

Which is why I am asking if there are flaws in the system, totally unrelated to good/poor teachers. Why do you think some parents place unrealistic expectations upon schools? What sort of demands are unreasonable?

I am a governor! The staff seem very unmotivated.

No

I can only talk about my own experience, but I have been thrilled with the quality of education on offer at my dd's state primary school - I genuinely couldn't have hoped for her to learn in a more supportive, stimulating and responsive environment. She's only in year 1 so it's still early days I suppose, but she has so far been blessed with two fantastically talented, dedicated and motivated teachers who have done all I expected and more to help her fulfil her potential.

I know that there are genuine problems in some schools, but I don't think the majority of schools are bad at all and the system certainly isn't broken in my view.

No. It stands up very well considering the complacent, selfish and individualistic society that makes demands on it. But I'm worried that Gove's policies and Osbourne's cuts will inflict much confusion and pain.

Oh, and I agree that some parents have completely unrealistic expectations!

My children are Y7 and Y3 in schools in a large town with above average deprivation and I couldn't be happier with their schools. DS (the 11y/o) has AS and both have had their learning through G&T provision.

I am sure there are some broken schools but not all are.

Waterloo, some people don't like change. Also it is hard to be objective if you are part of the problem( I don't mean poor teaching) just that it is difficult to get a different perspective. Also some older teachers might be wary of change because they have seen so many failed experiments in the past. It might be that some people resist change because it might mean a major shift in their practices which requires an equally huge shift in their ideology.

Is there any real agreement as to what the purpose of "education" is these days? What are we expecting our schools to teach? How individualised do we expect that teaching to be? If the wheels are falling off the system, it's because no-one really seems to have a clear idea of what they actually expect, just which particular pet expectations of their own haven't been met. We all think we know what's right for our own child, but that's really not the same thing as what is right for an entire education system. And then there's the issue of what people are willing to contribute towards a good standard of education for all, whether in terms of time or taxes (if we can agree on what a "good standard of education" is in the first place).

In my opinion, we expect an awful lot more from state education these days than anyone did 50 years ago, and we expect it all to be tailored to our specific needs. So perhaps, rather than talking about the education system failing, we need to agree on what our education system actually is, does and should do, first. And ask why so few people who complain about the quality of teaching these days actually go into teaching themselves, if they know so much about what makes a good teacher? And maybe we should also acknowledge that there are actually plenty of good State schools out there, regardless of the system.

I read somewhere (I wish I could link) about the rise of unsocialised children entering schools. Children who don't have proper speech, are unable to use the toilet correctly and have never had to sit at a table and eat a meal.

I think it is a big demand to be educating children who do not speak or understand basic english (and limited resources are diverted)

There just seems to be an awful lot of time spent doing 'non-school' things - collecting money, filling in forms, celebrating 'worthy' causes.

I just think a lot of effort goes into so many peripheral activities, that streamlining and pruning the school day would release a lot of people from the shackles

I have no fath in it at all and since oming on here a month ago and readng other parents experiences nothing has changed.

We had the choice of one school that was failing in a bad way...put name down at better schools and put DD in a private school...I think there ARE some good tate schools but they're rarer than hens teeth.

The problems I can see from the outside are that they are often very ovecrowded..that they interere and nanny parents too much and that there are some rotten teachers..oh and the bullying.

I have noticed on here...that people seem afraid of teachers, that people will advise parents to "not say anyting" about issues for fear of appearing over-fussy. I have also noticed that there is a sort of ove-defensive reaction from teachers on here..not ALL...just some..that they know best andkis areoften awful and parents are overbearing and demanding.

I don't think the UK hs enough choice with regards educaion...there are practially no alternative or arts based schools with the exception of Steiner...which I have hug doubts about (visited a few) and so parents either get what they're given or have to pay.

Muminlondon, what will this present government do, changes to the curriculum, funding cuts, changes to class room teaching and practice or worse still create yet more inequality through free schools?

Rabbitstew...I don't hink complaining about what's on offer means that people think they could do it better..it's not a direct attack on teachers...rather on the management of schools.

Why for instance is the local CofE in my town failing? It canno be that ALL the teachers in a large school are bad...nor the kids...ithas tobe something though! There has to be a reason why the kids (esp boys) are systematically failing from year 2 onwards. If its not the teachers or the kids..then who?

sorry for typos...I have dodgy laptp with sticky keys!

It seems to me that the younger teachers are the problem, my dd's teacher is always off school. Across the school there is little feedback on the pupil's work. Behaviour is awful and naughty kids get all the attention while children like my dd are ignored. I teach myself and have little time for those who just do not put the work in.

I agree that we expect a lot from education as well as teaching my classes as a teacher I am expected to offer regular individual tuition, extra classes for those who are struggling and those who are excelling. I am expected to run clubs, attend sporting fixtures or creative events outside of school time. I have to be able to explain every child who does not meet their targets. As a manager I also have 1001 other things to do, some of which come very close to social work. I personally don't mind, infact I love it but it is a big ask.

Teachers should not be collecting money and filling in forms.

There must be some excellent state schools around or some parents who are very easily satisfied not sure which.
I've been around about 30 private and state and none are without fault.

I have come to the conclusion the system needs to be overhauled massively unfortunately I haven't a clue what needs to be done, just the outcomes I'd like to see.
Every child should have an individual learning plan, it should be in place by the time the child arrives at junior school.
I also wonder whether the infant department shouldn't be open plan and if a 4 year old or a 7 year old wants a sleep/play in the sand pit/run around the playground instead of carpet time then what's the problem.
Languages need to be learnt from 4 as in other countries we hope to do business with.

From 4 years, not 4pm