State education system, is it broken?

[minimathsmouse]

I believe the wheels have fallen off the state education system. You might not agree but I have read so many posts here from parents who have had and are still having huge problems with their child's school. Many people seem to have worries about standards of teaching, clashes of ideology and problems with making up the deficit with tutors and home study. Horrendous SEN provission, huge class sizes, lack of provision for able pupils, the list goes on. It is truely depressing to think so many children are not receiving the education they deserve.

How many people believe the whole system has failed? Are falling standards only due to poor teaching or wider problems that are not being addressed within the system?

Who is to decide when a child is ready for school? What if the parents view things one way and the authorities another? If a child starts school at 7, do they start with other 5-year olds who are emotionally ready, or try to join in with a class of their peers?

Rabbitstew "what of those children who had taught themselves to read and do their times tables before they started school?"

But did they? or is it that parents feel under pressure to teach their children? I have friends who drill their children constantly just to keep them on the G&T register. One boy was physically shaking on the morning of the sats! Parents are becoming overly and increasingly anxious because the vast majority are aware that there is somthing flawed with state Ed but not entirely sure what it is. I don't think a focus on the basics would prevent differentiated learning, but teaching in groups according to chronological age does.

Oh if you read and know your times tables when you start school you'll be given year one books and when we listen to you, you can read fifty levels ahead of every one else if that's your level. If you're that well ahead you've almost certainly got bright parents or involved parents so I'd let mums come in on a math rota too.

If you want half term projects you can have them but they'll be optional, but still get lots of praise from Teach. No homework though. Letters to the parents saying, if you want to work at home try these worksheets or this book, or such and such a website. But no homework.

I hate the sound of appletree's school - sorry!

Well I know this will go down like a lead balloon but I have a DD aged 6 in private school and the mums of the older children think I'm bloody mad, they send the little ones to state to play around, get into mischief and get used to the routine until they reach junior school and then start paying when it's down to business and the real work gets down.
If only the state schools didn't take it all so seriously I might be tempted to do the same with my baby son but I don't trust them not to damage his self esteem so I think with the 4th child I will HE until junior school whether i choose state or private for him.
It's taken 10 years of parenting for me to have the confidence to say I know my child better than you and I will do what's right for them not the system.

When I say Y1 books I mean, Y2 or 3 or whatever level the child is at.

Children that bright can read their ahead books while others are learning cough and bough and tough or whatever. They are that bright and that ahead they will benefit even without teacher input for twenty minutes.

I think rabbit stew, that parents almost always know better than the autorities...except of course where there is abuse.

One way to remedy the problem of age difference in classes could be by having play based learning centres available for those children who are ready at 4 or 5...this is where they stay until they are 7 when they move into formal education.

A centre such as this would be split into age/ability groups...so that those who are more able could recieve one to one reading and writing lessons whereas those who are not ready for this can play and be creative.

Children who are not ready to attend until the age of seven may not attend at all..as their parents see fit.

That's ok nobody has to come.

In the afternoons they can do one sport, one games, one painting, one dance, one drama. I don't know, everything to give everyone a chance who enjoys the thing they enjoy, and force the other kids to do it because they might have a talent for it, you never know.

Mamatomony...I know the feeling! My sister sneers at me a litte for sending my DD also 6 to private school...I only know that she would never have coped with the environment on offer at the state school. She has thrived in every way where she is...but it is expensive and not everyone has the money for this choice. The same quality should be there for all.

Why do you despise people who try to get the best for their DC BeerTricks?

Minimathsmouse - my ds1 could read fluently before he started school, without being taught. He also had a self-taught interest in number sequences. I find it all very nice that he reads to people at school, but I find in his case that school is of far greater use in the development of his social and emotional skills. And given his connective tissue disorder, I don't think huge amounts of sport would do him that much good. However, he does like passive learning - ie sitting at a desk and being told the facts (whether of grammar, writing or maths), so he would probably be more comfortable in a teaching environment that focused more on the three rs, all of which he finds easy and well within his comfort zone. He hates art. He can't sing.... Wish he could, as I am musical and would love to share that with him. Ds2 would, frankly, be happy in a variety of school environments.

Appletrees youv'e blown it for me, with the "They are that bright and that ahead they will benefit even without teacher input for twenty minutes."

A percentage of the seemingly able pupils will be ahead because of parental input rather than just natural talent or intellect. These pupils still require teaching. This is the problem faced by teachers every working day of their lives. Some children are way ahead with no clear and sensible reason for this! why differentiate for them, others will genuinely be gifted/bright and really need different work, ignoring them for half the year is neglectful. How do you seperate them all out though?

I don't remember any front of class teaching from primary, In fact I swear it never happened, past yr 1 carpet time ceased to be. We all worked individually from workbooks. I stared out the window for half the day too frightened to draw attention. The classroom was deathly quiet. I think that there is a middle ground somewhere between noise and activity and quite studious disciplined classrooms.

Despise is quite a strong word isn't it ?
We tried state school after picking a shit private school, we then discovered that the shit private school was still shit (has now closed down) but equally state wasn't going to work either.
If my eldest DD passes the entrance exams she'll be back into state despite what I fear is coming up and again if that doesn't work out she'll go back to private.
You wouldn't stay in a bad job just because you've chosen one career so that's it for better or worse would you ?

rabbit...what would you think of what I suggested earlier? At 13.42? Do you think your son would have been catered for well in a place like that?

I think that he might have...just as my DD who prferred to play and dress up at age 5 woud have been well catered for.

I agree that by age 7 the majority are ready for formal learning...and those who are not are those who need some extra attention.

I agree that depise is a hard word despite being a leftie who has chosen not to privately educate to escape a crap school.

I agree Mamatomany...there seems to be some fear over changing in order to find the best option.

The afternoons sound good, appletree, and I like the no homework policy, but I don't like the exclusive focus in the mornings on the 3rs - very narrow and un-enriching, and positively awful for kids who are already well ahead in those areas.

My dd is another one who taught herself to read etc before starting school - no tutoring here!

Workbooks are so DULL. ANYTHING but tiresome workbooks!!!!! They are so repetitive. It was a blessed relief that there was a teachers' strike in my last year at primary school, resulting in our teacher allowing us to mark our own work, which meant that once I felt I understood the concept being so tiresomely repeated throughout the worksheet, I could get the answers and copy out the ones I hadn't bothered doing instead of wasting my time on unnecessary repetition.

I do remember a fair amount of front of class teaching, though. And some brilliant and eccentric projects organised by teachers with specific interests.

BeerTricks...you did say you "despise the pick n mix privateers"

I don't trample anyone's face...I work, earn and use the money to pay fees...there's nobody underfoot.

The trouble is Beertricks that they don't want you to support them, but they take that as criticism, your money yes that's fine donations to the PTA yes please. Thoughts on the maths programs or outdated phonics being taught, well you aren't a qualified teacher so you know nothing.

I am really struggling with the whole State-ed equality thing. I want the best for my children, but given Gove's job I might be tempted to close every private schoolin my pusuit of equality. It is difficult to seperate equality from excellence. Without comparisons we might all be happy.

I have chosen to Home-Ed for now and we will try the selective state/private route at 11 years, despite my leftist views.