State education system, is it broken?

[minimathsmouse]

I believe the wheels have fallen off the state education system. You might not agree but I have read so many posts here from parents who have had and are still having huge problems with their child's school. Many people seem to have worries about standards of teaching, clashes of ideology and problems with making up the deficit with tutors and home study. Horrendous SEN provission, huge class sizes, lack of provision for able pupils, the list goes on. It is truely depressing to think so many children are not receiving the education they deserve.

How many people believe the whole system has failed? Are falling standards only due to poor teaching or wider problems that are not being addressed within the system?

Agree with desi. And pleased to see back btw.

Beta, that sort of inequality of availability is dreadful, it's like a social contract being broken.

The thing is the schools do what they say they will do. They educate but like most things they do the bear minimum, even the so called enrichment, scratches the surface without a parent to follow it up the art, music, drama, dance, languages and literature offered is simply a taster.

Yeah but "enrichment", when they can't even read and write?

Children are happier when they are learning and achieving and acquiring independence through them. Enrichment.. I say, teach them in the mornings, knacker them and give them freedom to explore in the afternoons, and let them climb trees or play with empty toilet roll tubes or make playmobil after school.

In our town, there are no bad State schools. A lot of parents still have their children privately educated around here, though, having failed to do anything other than make assumptions about the state of State education in general (and all the feral children they believe to be running around the corridors). I will always do what I think is right for my children and that includes educating them privately if I have to, but only if I feel I have to. I also think the schools around here could be even better if so many people didn't assume that they were not good enough for their children, because it might increase the number of people actively committed to supporting their local schools, rather than paying to avoid them.

There are a great deal more that aren't worried.

Tell me any huge system of any kind that pleases everyone.

Orm, yet more statistics out yesterday showing that children aren't being properly taught to read and write. It isn't just "can't please everyone all the time" syndrome.

Rabbit Stew it's nothing to do with prejudice, DH and I had never been inside a private school until the day we took our PFB around them to look at. Have you ever even been inside a prep school ? The difference is tangible I'm afraid.

Marking to read later.

Prep schools select which students they take. The cost of them obviously makes them very selective.

Then on top of that they frequently kick out kids with SEN or kids who just aren't going to get good exam results.

If a state school could only take children who's parents had some discretionary income, and kicked out any child with SEN or who was failing in any other way - then state schools would be different to.

There are lots of things which could be improved about our school system. Lots of things I disagree with. But I definitely, definitely don't think it's broken.

Biggest and easiest change I would make is not making 1st Sep a hard and fast cut off date. There should be a few birth months of the year when you can choose whether you class starts reception 'this year' or 'next year' - like in Scotland and almost all other countries in the world.

England is a very conformist society. And English schools do a very good job of turning out conformist pupils - which is what English society and an astonishing number of parents want.

mamatomany - I don't quite understand your point. Are you saying that there are good State schools where you live, but that they still aren't good enough for your PFB? Or that you are one of those who has a poor selection of State schools to choose from? Or that what I think of as good is actually poor? Which begs the question, what do you think school is for and what do you expect from it?

We have ofsted outstanding schools locally that weren't good enough for any of our children, we tried them as did most of the children at the prep school they currently attend and found them lacking in many areas.
It would have been cheaper to top them up ourselves of course it would but with three time was the issue so money solved the problem.
Of course there are children in the prep school who's parents both went private so they wouldn't consider anything else but looking at what private school did for them career wise you couldn't blame them for sticking to what they know.

I like your school apple!

To me there seems to be a low expectation in our local state school. Not one of the kids leaving ever tries for the entrance exams to our towns private schools and there are many scolarships available.

I asked the head when I went to visit the school and she said "We have never had a child try the entrance exams...they either go to the caholic high or the CofE."

That was enough for me...it's a nice area many local parents sending their kids there...why then are there no kids trying for the private schools upon leaving?

I cannot imagine the many lovely parents have no ambition for their DC...so what is it that maakes the local private schools a no-go area?

Ambition? I don't want my kids to go private - nothing to do with lack of ambition. I don't like private schools, nor do I believe they offer a better education.

If I won lotto I still wouldn't send my kids to private schools.

Mamatomany, I can blame people for sticking to what they know. I question everything I do. It makes for an uncomfortable life, of course. I also can question the attitude that it's easier to pay to get out of a system than to try to work to make the system better for everyone. I don't intend to sacrifice my children to an ideal, but I am happy to accept less than perfect and to work at making it better, because otherwise nothing will ever get better, just drearily and continually worse as more and more people opt out of working towards the common good. (Cue The Red Flag - along with the smoked salmon, of course).

I agree you don't hear the satisfied people as much as the ones with problems. My 3 very different dds have all been happy and learned a lot in 3 very different state primary schools (we moved twice).

so either my dds are particularly unfussy, or we are, or we just happened to hit 3 unusually good schools. Or else there are actually a lot of OK schools out there.

I have the occasional complaint and there are things I would like to see done differently, but overally the dds are having a happy childhood and a decent education, IMO. not broken at all.

Yes, it is broken. Large class sizes in the early years, teachers with no power over the curriculum, endless targets, parents using the schools to bring up their children, lack of incentive to get a good education (why work in IT, medicine, sience etc when it is cheaper to get people over from China and India/) and a curriculum diluted of any real educational content. Teachers bogged down in pointless paperwork and working as social workers. As long as the state sector is like this, private schools will always exist. A sad fact, but true. If all politicians were forced to send their kids to the local comp, it would be sorted out immediately. It means that a lot of work has been done at home by the parents and those who don't have parental support, lose out. The state sector does not help social mobility one bit. At least the grammar schools had the aim (not anymore sadly) of letting bright, less wealthy kids get on. Teh private sector selects so has better results but there are private schools that don't select and do well because the teachers have more freedoms to TEACH

Sorry to say this but if it isn't already broken it soon will be now the Goverment are going to control spending in education.

Particularly since this Government appear to believe that you shouldn't actually rely on the State for anything (unless you really, really have to).

muminlondon - well said.

Considering parents (especially the middleclasses) find it very hard to believe that anyone can teach their amazing children, can wreck school reputations through gossip and generally fuss, I think schools do a brilliant job.

My dd skips into school every day, comes home and re-enacts what she did that day and is a fantastic reader (aged 6) I can't see what schools are doing wrong.

It doesn't seem to be broken for my two bright clever enthusiastic daughters...