Actually, no, I don't think my son has ADHD, or sensory integration issues, or conduct disorder or behavioural 'problems'...

[WilfShelf]

...or any thing else that can be labelled and which individualises and medicalises the issue.

And the REAL issue is that there is a class of 30 children, and he is a little person who is different and he won't sit quietly like the girls (who are, after all, the 'model' for good behaviour in primary schools).

And the friendship dynamic with one particular group of children is dysfunctional and actually he is simply SAD because he can't feel like he has real friends and the school is not helping that.

And the recognition that he is a physical, creative person doesn't seem to fit the model of what a school child should be. The school seems to be becoming more rigid, more over-reactive: what to me seem quite 'normal' behaviour blips are being pursued with 'intervention'. I don't want it, and he doesn't need it.

Argh.

I live in a cultural desert: there is NO hope of finding a suitable alternative school, I need to work so can't home ed, so what do I do?

Certainly worth investigating the asthma.

I have a friend whose little boy was showing all the signs of being ASD (to me with an untrained eye). I don't think she could see it (I couldn't ask really) but she knew his speech was very delayed, he was withdrawn, he didn't interact etc. Turned out his was virtually deaf with glue ear. She was the kind of person who didn't go to the docs unless at death's door so hadn't realised her DS had ear infections, just put it down to a cold if he was poorly so didn't realise his ears were a problem. He had grommets fitted and he is a completely different boy. All the behaviour that appeared to be ASD has gone and he is a bright, friendly, happy little chap now.

Anyway, the point of all that waffling is that the obvious answer (ASD/ADHD) is not always the right one. You know his background, his teachers obviously don't and if you think your DS is suffering from asthma that is affecting his behaviour making him manic with over tiredness then you might be on to something. I hope so - if he can be made better with steriods it would be great.

We've just restarted the inhalers this very evening. Had 2 puffs of blue late afternoon; and just now both blue and brown. Interesting that at bath/bedtime he was COMPLETELY calm. Mind you, he pretty much settled down after his guests left, so not necessarily anything helped by the inhalers.

It's all so low level and mysterious though.

Len, I guess what I wonder is whether, as niecie says, it's the low oxygen levels or low level cough/wheeze causing sleep problems. Certainly we KNOW he sleeps fitfully and lightly when he has a cough, and looks dreadful: bog eyed, pallor, greyish skin etc. And so I wonder if either the sleeplessness just makes him more labile; or the lack of oxygen messes with his brain.

Or summat: I'm not a medic/psych and am just making it up as I go along (partly because we've had very little definitive answer to the possible asthma problem either! so I tend not to rely too much on my GP)

Dear WilfShelf,

This is exactly like we felt with my husband (re: your very first message in this thread). This is exactly why we took our son out of school and after a while I relocated with children abroad (to where I originally come from) so that our 5 year old DS can still enjoy his childhood going to kindergarten where he can still play and be a normal little boy. He can still have 2 years here before he starts school. Meanwhile parents can work because kindergartens are open 8am to 6pm.

I do really understand how you must feel...

Stark unfortunately I am absolutely certain that the SENCO I met with doesn't like him. She views him as attention seeking, stubborn, defiant and lacking parental discipline. I would imagine it is difficult to hold those views and still actually like a child you describe in those terms.

Contrast the other SENCO who told me (completely unprompted) that she really misses teaching ds and that he is a 'ray of sunshine'. She taught him for two terms and did his assessment. The other SENCO has only had him this term but still managed to describe him as attention seeking 6 months ago when she had no experience of actually teaching him.

He is stubborn, confident, opinionated and not afraid to speak his mind to anyone and has a very developed vocabulary for his age He is also charming and polite. None of that is an easy mix in a 6 yr old.

I also don't think it has been helpful for the SENCO and the form teacher to make completely untrue assumptions about ds's home life because I happen to be single parent.

Just seen that mrz commented on what I said too. Well I guess that I must just be unlucky .

I would honestly be amazed if you can say hand on heart that you like all the children you teach and have taught equally.

Finally (should have posted this all in one!). His year 1 teacher said at every single parents evening that she had never taught a child like ds and just couldn't work him out.

She views him as attention seeking, stubborn, defiant and lacking parental discipline.
Actually it's quiet easy to like such children as she seems to be indicating the root of his difficulties.
I've taught a number of very unique personalities and have enjoyed every single one even the ones that were bloody hard work at the time. Honestly we aren't in teaching because we don't like kids.

To be honest, I've taught children I didn't like much, but it just made me scrupulous in my dealings with them.
I always double-checked that I was being fair, and that I would have treated another child in the same way, given them the same help, listened to them as often, cared about their progress and disciplined in the same way.
I'm very impressed that there are teachers who have liked every child they've taught.

There are children who some teachers don't like. My ds was one of them. He's quirky, confident and fidgety. His main problem, for want of a word, was that he was more intelligent that the majority of his primary teachers. His problems were put down to lack of attention from me at home. I was told, by his teachers and his head, that I was cold and not at all maternal towards him at home. How they could judge this from seeing me for 2 mins each day I'll never know. All this was said to us to deflect from the teachers behavior towards my son. It's a long story, but my ds was severely let down by his school. We have the reports from the psychiatrist and off the record conversations with other teachers at the school to back us up.
I like your way goblinchild, my aunt's a teacher and she's always said that there will be pupils she doesn't like but they would never know. She, like goblinchild, double-checks she's not being prejudiced. I never wanted my ds to be universally liked and loved, all I wanted is for some of his teachers to be professional and not blatantly show their dislike. I'm not making a sweeping statement about all teachers but there are some out there who are unable to hide their contempt for certain pupils.

There are ways of speaking that give an indication of what you think along with the words you use. For example one person could say your child is stubborn (a negative) another that they are determined (a positive). I have absolutely no doubt what the Senco meant with the words she used.

I want the best for my Ds and asked for an Ed psych referral with the purpose of coming up with strategies that could help everyone involved with ds's education. Senco said she doesn't see the point. Form teacher doesn't see point either as 'all they do is ask us'. She laughed when she said that. Both seemed to completely dismiss whatever I said.

I admit to having disliked the odd child or two over the years (30+)but all you do is be nicer to these children and that is a good way to end up liking them, because they will respond to kindness. From time to time I've even disliked my own children.
Oddly enough it is not the feisty children who I've disliked!
Mollie -you sound like a feisty young woman. I'm surprised that it is your single parenthood that is seen as problematic by the school. Surely in this day and age that is not uncommon.
Who mentioned PDA? What a revelation that is to me.It's a condition I've never heard of so thanks for mentioning it.

Square pegs in round holes.

I have managed to find a rectangular hole to squeeze my ds in for a while.

I have every sympathy with you wilfshelf.

Mollieo, the more I hear of your son, the more he sounds like my ds.

Stark sadly I've sat in staff rooms and listened to how some teachers describe our beautiful children and not in a good way ... and having several teachers in my family, I am too aware that personalities do enter into the relationship equasion. It's human nature ......

Yes MS but no-one has a child that ALL teachers don't like.

Ds seems to be developing into the sort of child teachers either really like or can't stand. One tracher's lively/sparky child is another's pita. Completely understandable imo but hard to handle at such a young age.

"I have heard that teachers receive more in payment when a pupil has some health issues. That is why they try to attach this ADHD or Asperger's syndrome label to children who do not sit "still" and have some minor learning difficulties."

Teachers don't receive more money but the schools do get additional funding for extra resources for the child if that child has a statement. That is only if they need more than 15 hours 1:1 support though. The school has to fund the first 15 hours out of their budget, then the LA fund the rest. If a child needs the full 25 hours support then the LA fund it all.

Therefore a school will usually only want to attach labels to a child if they think they will get a high level of support on their statement, thus meaning the child does actually need said label.

Or if the school genuinely feels it needs help and advice, nappyaddict, even if the needs are not severe enough to merit more than 15 hours 1:1.

My experience of the way the process works is that except in obvious cases where the parents are being wilfully blind, a school will not obtain a diagnosis if it does not have parental agreement that there is a problem. Parents have to give their own evidence, too - it isn't just done on the basis of how a child behaves at school and what the school says about him. If you really aren't convinced and have plenty of evidence of your ds's normality outside of the school setting, then you are unlikely to get a diagnosis. Hopefully, if you go through the process you will still get a bit of advice that might benefit the school and its approach to your ds, though, even without a formal diagnosis of anything! And you do agree that the school is finding it difficult to deal with your ds by employing its normal strategies and that it is asking for help which you, he, his class and his teachers should hopefully benefit from (if the advice is any good, of course). So go ahead, and don't worry about getting an inappropriate diagnosis - I think it's actually quite difficult to get a formal diagnosis, inappropriate or otherwise.

Well I too have a ds that a reception teacher didn't like......

At aged 4 my ds was a confident, boisterous active boy, very articulate and aksed lots of questions. However he didn't 'do' sitting down, being quiet or waiting patiently in line. He needed to learn all of this. His teacher quickly pigeon holed him as the naughty kid, I was called in on a weekly, sometimes daily basis. He was sent to the head, put on report, an educational physcologist was called in and he was given an IEP. In his whole 1st year at school she had not 1 good thing to say about him. When I read his school report by her it still makes me want to cry. She mentioned his diet, ADHD and even the fact that he is an only child. All of this and he was only 4 years old.

It wasn't until he got to Year 1 and his teacher at parents evening actually said 'he is a great, fun boy to have in my class and I have enjoyed teaching him' that I had heard a good word about him. I cried tears of joy!

He is now 8, in Year 4, and is a totally normal, active boy. NO more problems from school at all.

rabbitstew Sorry I wasn't very clear. I meant that schools won't gain anything by trying to falsely label a child with something they haven't got because it will actually cost them money unless the child requires a high amount of support and if that was the case then the child would actually have it, it wouldn't be a false label. They can get advice and help from the LA by putting them on School Action or School Action Plus without trying to give labels for the sake of it.

'Teachers don't receive more money but the schools do get additional funding for extra resources for the child if that child has a statement. That is only if they need more than 15 hours 1:1 support though. The school has to fund the first 15 hours out of their budget, then the LA fund the rest. If a child needs the full 25 hours support then the LA fund it all.'

It depends on the LA nappy addict. The first LA I worked in used to give a school an 'SEN budget' worked out in April, regardless of number of statements and subsequently if a child then received a statement it would say things like '2.5 hours extra funding, 12.5 hours to be taken from school budget'

In my current LA we get all statement money funded each April, which has been a big change for me to work with.

So are you saying if a child only has say 5 hours a week on their statement in your current LA all that gets funded by them?

Not too sure exactly, as our Statements are all 15 hours or more. But I do know that we've got a couple of children who didn't get their statements until May/June last year and therefore we don't get funding on those until this coming April.

So on your LA if they are 15+ hours do they fund it all or does the first 15 hours come out of the school's budget?

We get funding for the entire statement. In the previous LA we only got part funding e.g. 2.5 of a 15 hour statement.