Actually, no, I don't think my son has ADHD, or sensory integration issues, or conduct disorder or behavioural 'problems'...

[WilfShelf]

...or any thing else that can be labelled and which individualises and medicalises the issue.

And the REAL issue is that there is a class of 30 children, and he is a little person who is different and he won't sit quietly like the girls (who are, after all, the 'model' for good behaviour in primary schools).

And the friendship dynamic with one particular group of children is dysfunctional and actually he is simply SAD because he can't feel like he has real friends and the school is not helping that.

And the recognition that he is a physical, creative person doesn't seem to fit the model of what a school child should be. The school seems to be becoming more rigid, more over-reactive: what to me seem quite 'normal' behaviour blips are being pursued with 'intervention'. I don't want it, and he doesn't need it.

Argh.

I live in a cultural desert: there is NO hope of finding a suitable alternative school, I need to work so can't home ed, so what do I do?

To be honest, WilfShelf, I would say that makes it even more clear in their minds that your DS has a SN of some sort. They know you, they know your parenting, you've had one child already through the same school with no issues. They aren't trying to upset you, they are trying to help you.

What would the harm be of letting them observe and assess your DS? It really is hard to get a diagnosis of anything, even if it is staring you in the face. I wish more parents knew that and didn't think they are handed out like toffees and any quirky child struggling a little gets one. It would allow parents the freedom to embrace the concerns of schools in the knowledge that they will be sent on their way if all is well.

Thanks justabout, and I appreciate your thoughtful post. I'm really not trying to demean the investigations others have gone through - and indeed their struggles to get proper support. I am sure countless others have started exactly where I am and then kicked themselves, as you (and colditz) say, for not seeing things earlier.

I accept everything that you say.

But I also think for every child who can't get a diagnosis when one is needed, or it has been delayed, there must be others who for whatever reason are misdiagnosed also.

The NICE document makes it clear: the boundaries for inclusion are very fuzzy. Being practical about it: if lots of kids have some ADHD tendencies, or they do at particular phases or in response to particular triggers... or if kids who are more creative or whose brains work in particular ways do too. Then shouldn't schools work to be inclusive, to teach in ways that allow for that, instead of assuming diagnosis, treatment and intervention is the only solution?

Of course, some kids must benefit from the interventions. Even perhaps those who don't need it as much as others. Lots of people will work better with behavioural support, or psychological help, or CBT, or Ritalin. That doesn't mean they 'need' it either.

Maybe I am just 'blind' or in denial. I may eat my words, and I will appreciate all your kind thoughts posted already on this thread from everyone who has experience of SEN when I face that music. But I want to be sure that giving over the decisions to professionals outside of my control is the right thing to do. And I am anxious about that.

ColdComfortFarm, so who started barking then?

When children in my class have been supported/assessed by the behavioural support team, what comes back is lots and lots of ideas of strategies for me, the teacher to try in school. The idea being that I need to consider the classroom environment, my teaching, the classroom organisation, social opportunities etc. and use a range of different (sometimes new) strategies in order to engage the pupil who is currently experiencing difficulties.

There may also be suggestions of small group, or individual work that might be useful for the pupil being supported, but many/most of the strategies are ones which are used within the classroom.

If there are issues with self-esteem, then those will be pointed out to me to ensure that I am aware of them, so that I can put additional strategies in place to work on this area.

Perhaps if the Behaviour Support Team noticed your ds's low self esteem and discussed it with the school, it would confirm what you have been saying.

I don't know if that helps to clarify anything, Wilf?

My DD is a mixed bag, Wilf. She actually has a brain malformation, which is largely responsible for lots of her issues. However, she can tick lots of ADHD boxes, and lots of ASD boxes. Her attention span (year R) is less than 30 seconds for activities that don't interest her.

Despite this, and the fact that she has been under Paediatrician care for over 2 years, and the fact that her Paediatrician has a special interest in....Autism...she still doesn't have a label, because although she ticks quite a few boxes, he isn't convinced. He won't label unless he is convinced.

Yes littlefish, actually the teachers were VERY clear to point out that this was mostly about finding ways to support them with DS2. I also accept the point that I don't know it all and I guess ruling out other things is also important.

And I am just reacting, I suppose, to hearing for the first time that other people think something might be wrong. I am open to the idea that we are in denial. And that my delusions of professionals in white coats swooping in and carrying away my son in a drugged state are perhaps a leeeetle paranoid and neglectful of both their professionalism and, er, funding realities!

I appreciate everyone's thought on this: it really helps me gain some perspective.

So better to go ahead, but sceptically, and let them bring in the behaviour support people and perhaps work up to further intervention?

Or run a mile and go and live in a yurt and set up a Free Skool where he can dance naked in the woods?

ACtually, where we live, you'd have to run a lot longer than a mile to set up a yurt-based schooling system

Tidey, I so wish it was the case that funding comes to the school for all children who gets a diagnosis. I'm REALLY fortunate that my DS2 (severe Asperger's)has a statement that is low incidence. This means that not many children in the county system are as severe as him and he is fully funded 25 hours a week. If he's been high incidence - lots of children being like him - he probably would have got a statement, but unfunded. This means that the school is legally obliged to provide what's in the statement but from their existing budget. It doesn't take a brainsurgeon to work out that you end up robbing Peter to pay Paul to do this.
It took from Y1 until halfway through Y7 to actually get this diagnosis and then another year for the statement (which didn't happen without a fight)- until then, the school (who were just brilliant) did the best they could for him with limited resources.

Dear WS, I haven't read all this thread, but I can definately identify with your issues. All through primary school we were told that the teachers thought that one of our boys had a syndrome on the autistic spectrum. He was assessed, on and off, for years.

As parents we thought it was a bit OTT and whilst we recognised the behaviours the teachers complained of, we didn't see them as significant problems and, in the main, we didn't see them often at home (but they were sometimes significant at home, so can't say it was a smooth ride).

The assessments were inconclusive and gradually his behaviour improved. Then he passed the 11+ and has gone to the grammar school. He is a reformed character and we are overjoyed.

In retrospect we think that he was often bored at school and the school/curriculum was too rigid.

I often wondered if I was in denial but I looked up all the info re ASD and I just couldn't see it.

You know your child best. Often on the SEN boards on here parents say the same thing; the difference is that they are saying that they KNOW something is wrong and teachers/doctors won't take their concerns seriously. Sometimes it is the other way round.

And just to add a further perspective - even if there is investigation, and even if there is no diagnosis ... it does not necessarily mean there is nothing going on!

We've been through a fair range of mills/professionals/investigations with ds (now 11) and he has no 'label' (btw I do have trouble with the inherently pejorative connotation of the word 'label' - just calling it a label gives the wrong, and a bad, impression, of finite damning categorisation - it isn't just semantics). But that is because he has too many issues, in too many areas, but not enough severity of any of them in any one area. He doesn't fit any one of the pictures, he fits - a bit - in a lot.

And school has been difficult for him, for us, for his teachers, for his classmates sometimes - that's the bit that is absolutely clear, and is just the plain fact. Yes you can say about a child 'he's just bright' or 'he's creative' or 'he's a square peg' or 'group learning isn't his thing' but it doesn't follow from all that that there mayn't be a need for help. I think (my experience) it actually makes the help more valuable & necessary, as when you're dealing with this sort of limbo-state 'now-you-see-it-now-you-don't' set of difficulties there are even fewer guides or parallels along the road to suggest what might work & what might not.

So I'd really recommend taking whatever investigation is offered - but, if it all does come out inconclusive, not necessarily taking the view that that then means everything is fine and there was no point ever investigating or worrying.

(Best help for me has been from parents in a similar situation, just to say.)

Thanks Bink, and Len. I think we're all in agreement about the complexity of these things. But I guess I'm not yet at the point where I think DS has A Problem. Although I do accept some things about his behaviour are disruptive and problematic at school and I fully support the school's need to act in some way. I don't know yet whether I think this is right, but I guess I will withhold judgement, especially as those of you further down the road seem to feel quite involved in the process and maintaining some control over it...

I would also advocate taking whatever help/assessment they offer. You are damned if you do and damned if you do so you might as well because then at least you can silence those who say there is something wrong if the assessement shows there is nothing out of the ordinary.

As it stands, if you refuse to have your DS assessed, the teachers will still think that he has problems and they will still treat him as if he has problems. The only way of stopping this is to have him assessed and to show them there is nothing wrong. Don't worry about getting a label he doesn't deserve - they don't give them out lightly. You might argue the toss about whether it is the right label (as I do incidentally - labelling is not perfect) but you are more likely to not receive a diagnosis when one is needed than to receive a diagnosis when that isn't needed.

I would also say, don't be afraid of a diagnosis. It can help, especially for a child on the fringes of a more severe condition. My DS1 has mild AS and dyspraxia. It is really very mild but without it nobody would make allowances for his quirkiness and idiosyncracies. It would be easy to seen him as fidgety, loud, lazy and lacking in concentration and probably less bright than he is. With a label, a decent school will absorb this and make allowances where allowances need to be made. Labels help acknowledge differences

And fwiw, I don't think girls are the model for good behaviour, especially in infant schools. The 'naughtiest' child in DS2's class is a girl and girls are just as challenging generally in their way, as the boys.

Wilf I insisted ds was assessed in year 1 as I was fed up with his teacher saying she had never taught a child like ds. She suggested testing but he had to be 5.5. By the time he was 5.5 she was happy with his progress and said he didn't need testing. I insisted and the result was identifying his memory problems.

I am currently battling to get him an Ed Psych referral. SENCO says if he has one now he'll probably need another when he is 13 or 14. My reaction to that was 'so what?'.

Ds's behaviour in school bears no relation to his behaviour outside school (other than homework). He came out of his 3 hour Stagecoach class this afternoon absolutely buzzing. He never does that from school. I am coming round to the conclusion that we need to change schools but I want the Ed Psych report to identify what that should be.

I do wonder whether he is just one of those children that school teachers just don't like.

Lenin if I had my time again and ds was in Reception I would be far more pushy than I was. I feel as if I've been too laid back in the hope and expectation everything would sort itself out. Now we're in year 2 and ds is really unhappy. I hate that and feel as if I've let him down by not being a pushy parent earlier in his school life.