My daughter in year 1 is being stubborn, non compliant and disruptive, what can I do ???

[mummyloveslucy]

Hi, my daughter is in year 1. She settled in really well, but recently she's being very lazy in class and quite stubborn. She does have moderate learning dificulties but I'm not using that as an excuse as she's capable of doing far more than she is.
The teacher told me that one day she'd taken 2 hours to coppy one line of writing. When she told her she'd have to stay in at break until she'd done another line, she did it within about 30 seconds.
Her teacher said that she dosn't seem to be doing it to be naughty, as she's always smiling and very polite but just isn't prepared to work hard.
Her P.E teacher said that she spent a lesson doing her own thing despite repeatedly being told to listen etc. She was also disrupting the other children.
I also find it quite hard at times at home getting her to either do as she's asked or even to join in a game and follow my rules. She seems to only want to do her own thing and dosn't like being told what to do. It's a nightmare! Even when I tell her a story, she interupts saying things like "No,a princess not a girl" I tell her if she keeps interupting I'll leave, she always does it again so I leave and she misses out.
I am always consistant with her but she dosn't seem to mind her punishments and dosn't really respond well to positive re-enforcement either.
I'm not sure what to do with her? We had a day out together today and she spent most of the day making stupid noises and just really trying to wind me up. it isn't fun to take her out at all.
Does anyone have any words of wisdome? I really feel I need to act now, as this behaviour won't get better on it's own.

MLL children with ASD can be affectionate my dd is in bucket loads. Actually not discriminating between strangers and familiar people is a sign of ASD as well tbh.

Of course every IEP is different but ds is on his third one now since February this year.

Aspergers is not the same thing as autism. My DD ticks a lot of the boxes for it though no official diagnosis. She is incredibly friendly with people but does not understand social rules properly at all - can't work out how to join in with a group of people already playing for example, is inflexible about changing what she wants to play and will play on her own instead if others will not play what she wants, even though she craves to be with others etc. Sometimes however she can seem very normal too. It can all be part of AS. Have you googled aspergers for a look at symptoms?

Lougle was brave enough to say everything I wanted to, sorry but she's right.

It was written up after the EP's visit which was towards the end of the last term in reception, so it was ready for her entry in to year 1. It quite a new thing.

MLL, ASD is not about not wanting to socialise, it is about a 'triad of impairment', with one of those being 'social interaction' - that can go either way. The stereotype is that the child is aloof and non-interactive, but there are a fair number of children with ASD that have the opposite difficulty, that they don't know how to judge what is appropriate interaction and 'over do it'.

I would doubt that the EP is connected with the LEA in any way. Our LEA Ed Psych dept won't touch private schools as they don't get funding (completely ignoring that the LEA is saving because they aren't providing my ds with any education at all).

The referral ds will get to the Ed Psych will either come through the child development centre consultant paed (NHS) or I will have to pay.

Eps are employed by the LA.

It really is shocking that dd has so many difficulties and has had only one IEP. It shrieks "warning signs" to me and probably every parent of a child with SEN tbh.Your dd is not being best served by this school MLL and you are paying for the supposed privilege

EPs are employed by the LA, and their services are contracted out to the NHS in those circumstances, MollieO.

MLL, has your DD's soiling issues been resolved, or is she still trying to deal with that at school, also?

AS comes in all shapes and sizes. A poor recognitiion of behavioural boundaries and inappropriate demonstrations of affection (or anger) are all possible traits. sorry but your ddhas not goneofrm beign mdoel pupil to defiant and stubborn overnight without reason. iirc you have been concerned at home for a month or two. Either the teacher hasn't been straight with you or something has occurred to trigger it at school now too. You cannot assume any teacher has SEN training or experince , whatever type of school they teach in. Agree evry school has a sENCO and you should take th IEP and reports for a detailed, and frank, discussion about whether and how your dd's needs will be met. Being happy is all very well but she will only continue to lose ground if left there too long without intervention. I fear unless you act now you will have a litle girl struggling academically and socially in a few years' time, but happy enough in the world as she understands it, and still face moving school, sorry.

If I wanted to or needed to talk to the teachers at ds1 and dd's school every day I could. When they come out in the afternoon the teacher comes too and can be approached for a quick chat, though of course if I wanted a more detailed and in depth discussion I would need to make an appointment.

Agreed Lougle but if ds isn't referred that way then he will see a private EP completely that doesn't work for the LEA and for which I shall have to pay £500 for an assessment.

Has the teacher expressed concerns about your dd or is she happy with the IEP as written? If the latter it might be a question of giving it more time. Was the IEP put in place with the currrent teacher or is this a different one? If so is the current teacher happy that she understands the IEP, its purpose etc? It doesn't really help if your school doesn't seem to have a designated SENCO.

I know, MollieO, it is disgusting, isn't it? But that is the trouble with private education, specifically when discussing SEN. If a parent tells the LA that they don't need their services for their child's education, that's it. They wash their hands.

iirc MLL's EP was LA funded as part of a wider assessment team. Unusual though and not a scenario likely to be repeated.

I have a daily report of dd's day in a communication book, a ten minute meeting weekly with her (asd trained) TA (written into her statement) and I can speak to her teacher whenever I need to.Her IEPs are set each term and reviewed after six weeks and altered then if needed.Your dd could be having the same MLL.

Thanks Lougle. Not what I wanted to hear, but perhaps what I needed too.
I'll have a chat to my husband but I think we do need to do it. I'll find somewhere that can meet her needs and see how she gets on. She can always go back if she's really unhappy.
If I don't try, I'll never know. She is so special to me, I want to give her the very best and to be honest, I'm worried she'll be seased or bullied at a school where people don't know her. That's my biggest fear. Perhaps because it happened to me, I really want to protect her. If she's being made to feel the dunce of the class, then that's doing just as much damage to her self esteem.

But not all LEAs do that. My googling has revealed some that will provide LEA EP in private schools, eg Dorset. Our council's SENCO dept won't help much either, although they will organise an assessment and statement of SEN if required. They won't then fund the SEN provision as they say because they won't fund the school fees (of course) they won't fund the cost of additional support - an 'all or nothing policy' according to the person I spoke to on Friday.

Agree with the gist of Lougle's post. Didn't she have an assessment where the speech therapist thought she was behind with her understanding of language? If this were my child I would be concerned that it wasn't so much stubbornness/misbehaviour, rather than genuine difficulty understanding the teacher's instructions and/or difficulty concentrating due to SN.

She is still soiling herself quite regularly, but tends to hold it in at school. She never tells the teacher if she's messed herself and won't use their toilet either.
She does have a lot to deal with and since we ran out of movicol she's been constipated again despite a diet high in fruit, vedge and fibre. She's going to the Dr's tomorrow.

Dd saw an Ed Psych as part of a multi disciplinary assessment through the CDC because she wasn't school age at the time (just two) Dd then had a statement in place before she started nursery at three.The ed psych that she sees now is the same person but originally health footed the bill and now the LEA does.

MLL, your user name is 'mummyloveslucy' - Be brave Take your time, a few more weeks isn't going to kill her. Look around the schools that you have locally. Look at their OFSTED reports, but look at the sections on SEN mainly. Make a few appointments, look around the schools. Be HONEST about your DD and her needs.

She is NOT stubborn, non-compliant and disruptive for no reason. She is 'hard to engage' 'needs additional support' 'behind', etc.

You need to find a school that wants Lucy 'warts and all' and wants to help her get the best out of every day at school. A school who view her as a joy, not a burden.

YOU CAN DO THIS

MLL I too have posted on your threads for a few years trying to tell you the same thing, I'm really sorry that her current school can't provide her with the best learning environment.

Truly the money you would be saving could be better spent on other things for her whilst she would be accessing a better education at the same time.

I do understand it must be very hard to pull her from such a caring environment and how scary that is for you as a Mum. Have you read up on ASD there must be lots of web based information although ultimately she would need a proper assessment because it is a huge spectrum and Lucy could be anywhere along it.

MLL dd's school is a very inclusive school so there are lots of children with SEN and lots far less able than my dd. But because there are lots of children with needs then they aren't seen as odd or different. Dd has never experienced teasing and I haven't heard of any of the other SEN children being teased either because we speak a lot. Maybe you would benefit from having other parents to chat to who have children with SEN too.