Starting C of E primary

[stellamylove]

My D, starting local school in Sept. It's quite holy, with daily prayers, a message board to god, hymns etc. As an atheist I'd rather she wasn't exposed to this kind if brainwashing, but I don't want to stigmatize her by asking she be excluded. Is there any mileage in canvassing other parents to see if they feel the same and trying to set up a group of kids who are spared it. Has anyone tried this?
Pleas don't suggest sending her to a different school. It's our nearest local village state school + all her mates from pre-school are going!

Thats very useful backgroun info mrz, thanks.

Giddy, I havent found the school not to my liking at all. The location, education, general set-up all seem fine plus the fact that her friends are all going there. I'm unhappy with the fact that at my local state-funded school is allowed to preach to childeren unless they specifically opt out. I dont think the response "send her somewhere else then" is good enough.

I'd have thought a church school was precisely the place to start protesting about this practice.

Having said all this I didnt expect useful advice about reducing christian influence in schools from people who support religion in schools, it'd be like asking turkeys to vote for christmas...

It is a CofE school. I really don't know what you expect. We are in a similar situation to you, small village, one school as most (if not all that I know of) it is a CofE school, I was brought up in a devout RC family and had an RC education, before I even left my RC high school I knew it wasn't for me and these days I don't know what I would call myself, I am just not a fan or organised religion but unless I want to treck into town on the non existant bus service or drive the car I don't have daily access to it's the village CofE school for my children. My dd start there last September, the school has a christian ethos and strong links to the church however my dd has come out of her first year with a good understanding of lots of diferent faiths, she understands tolerance and understanding, something the school is very big on. My dd does not see herself as CofE, she will occationaly choose to pray, thats up to her, she enjoys church so we go when ever we can (I work on sundays and dh does not feel comfortable going to church so it tends to be christmas and easter that we make it) but the point is that I have let my children make there own choices about church and religion, to withdraw from all religious education in my mind would be a very silly thing to do, in order to make thier own choices about religion they need to un derstand what it's all about, if you don't allow them that education you are 'brainwashing' them to your own belief system, the think you say so strangly you don't want the school to do!
I feel your attitude towards the school is awful, you knew it was a CofE school yet you wait until your child is due to start to think if you want this type of education for your child and then think you can change a school and its ethos because you don't like it and you think other feel the same by looking at facial expresions on a couple of occations, you are putting your opinions onto others without knowing what they really think, what you are doing and want to do it far far worse then a bit of collective worship within a school that outwardly proclames to be a faith school, it's you who wants everybody else to conform to your belief system. I really find your attitude sickening.

stellamylove
I'm unhappy with the fact that at my local state-funded school is allowed to preach to childeren unless they specifically opt out.

You seem to be missing the fact that your local school belongs to the church and education is provided by the church with support from the state so without the church there wouldn't be a local school for your child to attend.
You may be unhappy about it but it seems to me that does give them the right to have some say in the way the school is run.

And your state is not a secular one but an established one, if you have a problem, that's where you need to start!

I think this discussion has run its useful course from my point of view. Thanks for some useful info and points made.

I wrote that before I saw your point mrz + spanieleyes (having just sickened someone with my attitude!) . I agree with both of you, but the country is becoming increasingly secularized, and in a supposedly inclusive + democratic society, our schools should reflect this. If the state or politicians dont have the motivation to change it, then it's down to those more directly affected, ie parents. And my initial question was really just to try and find out if anyone has any ideas about this.

But your arguement can't be with the school as they are simply following the law! Your arguement must be with the law itself. Your school will be quite happy for you to opt out of as much as you are permitted, anything further than that would mean that THEY are breaking the law, which no school is going to do no matter how many parents complain!

I would imagine you would have a greater chance of success if your local school was not provided by the Church of England in persuading other parents that daily worship is unnecessary. Unfortunately for your the owners of the school(CoE) will have more say than those who use the service in what happens in school.

Have you ever met a child/adult who was truly 'brainwashed' at a faith school, but had secular parents?

I ( as you might have guessed!) teach in a Church school. My eldest son didn't go to church school , my youngest did. My eldest is a committed christian, my youngest an avowed atheist. Both made up their own minds.

Mrz, I think, you're right. This seems very unjust when it is fundamentally a state school with a small part of the funding coming from the church. There isn't really a choice about this nationally, especially as previous posters pointed out the law requires all schools to carry out an act of broadly christian-based worship daily.
Pixie "brainwashing" may be an unsavoury term, but the function of worship in schools ("religious instruction")as it used to be called IS to tell young children that christianity represents the truth about the world. The Anglican schools inspection report praises the school for engendering a christian vision of the world.
They wouldn't bother doing it if they didn't think it influenced people, the fact that some kids don't become christians despite it is irrelevant

I think you will find that RE is taught in a very open minded way in most schools and that Christianity is presented as one belief system not as an absolute truth.

People who are Christians believe this and people who are Hindus believe this and people who are Muslim believe this ... and even some people don't or choose not to believe.

I can't imagine any school (Church or otherwise unless some weird sect) telling children that Genesis is true

I wouldn't worry yet.

I was Christened. I went to a CofE school (because it was on my road). I went to Sunday school (until I started asking not to go). I went to Brownies that was attached to the same church.

Even with all this, I wasn't a believer and nor was my brother. We just decided for ourselves.

I can't remember any brainwashing. Yes we did hymns and harvest festival, and I think the vicar came in once a week for assembly, but that's about it. I remember learning about the good Samaritan and things like that, but nothing brain-washy in terms of Christianity being the only way.

Its seems a bit of a waste of energy to complain that a C of E school has religious elements.

Now when my son gets older, I'd prefer not to send him to a religious school at all, but if it ended up being the only option I don't think I'd mind him singing hymns and so on - most of them have good messages at heart.

Donning armour

From what I've seen, young people are far more 'vulnerable' at university age...

I would always go to the nearest school and would probably put up with stuff that I didn't agree with because children don't notice.

Saying that, it is preferable if you like the ethos of a school because you feel more comfortable as a parent.

So, our dds school manages to be informal but with good behavior. I like this. Another, less local school makes all the male teachers wear ties. I don't like this, but other people love it!

If its a voluntary controlled school,it would probably have been bequested to teh LEA on the condition that its religious character is maintained.
i have found that my DC have had quite a bit of 'brainwashing' from the other pupils.

I think Stellamylove is indeed setting herself and her daugher up for a fall... there are going to be so many more important challenges in life that her daugher will have to face.. other than the perception that her child will be 'brainwashed' by a church school.you chose it for your daughter..get on with it and see.. you might be surprised.. otherwise choose another school simple..

I suppose a large part of my beef is that I feel every local school should be good enough. It should teach literacy, numeracy, computer skills and the less definable stuff like getting on with people, respect etc. I don't agree with the culture of consumerism in state education where you seek out a specific school for your precious child's needs, which is why people saying "send her somewhere else, or home-school her" doesn't wash . If anything people who want their kids to be religiously instructed should have to find a special school for it rather than it being the default position for everyone

Sorry stellamylove but your nearest school (that all your child's friends will be attending) would still be a church school even if no parents searched for the "best" (and that is a very subjective label) school. It is also something very much confined to certain towns cities and counties rather than being a national situation.
As to schools "being good enough" since parents redefined "satisfactory" to mean "bad" will it mean that soon "good" will also be redefined?

your poor child she will not understand fully why she is being excluded. You want a free, good, secular school you can walk to. No matter how much you stamp your feet you are NOT ENTITLED to one.

You do know she is likely to end up as a fundamentalist christian...