Anyone had problems with pre school? I think they are trying to label my son as autistic

[roseability]

I am pretty sure my ds keyworker was suggesting my ds is on the autistic spectrum

We are confident this is not the case, as at home and at family functions he shows no signs

We had a meeting today with the deputy head of the school (who oversees the nursery) as we had some concerns about how this has been handled

Does anyone else have experience of this?

It is the assumption that 'oh this is another one of those where the child is clearly autistic and she goes into denial' that pisses me off

I have repeatedly said I am not in denial about anything. I am a very open and honest person with myself and others

It is the suggestion of a diagnosis based on a couple of observations by someone not qualified to do so that I object to. That is not 'burying my head in that sand' but taking a rational and logical approach in my opinion

The suggestion of assessment based on such arbitary and inconsistent observations shocked me. Unless they are keeping back information which would also be immoral

No I won't get him assessed 'just in case'. I need more evidence provided in a more clear and detailed way

I have also said repeatedly that I have listened to what was said. I have an appt with GP and will get his hearing checked and discuss these concerns

I was under the understanding that autism in most cases caused pervasive developmental problems. I will not have my son labelled just because he has a couple of traits. I want to know this is affecting his learning and development and then I will move the earth to get the help he needs. However the deputy head stated that developmentally he is fine and indeed we have had no concerns in his five years of existence.

The nursery is a new environment for him and yes whilst I am sure that this is picked up often in this way there could be a multitude of other reasons for these observations

The fact that this worker blanked me last week says a lot about her professionalism.I was perfectly entitled to go over her head and raise my concerns.

I will get back and if it turns out he is autistic I will eat humble pie and admit my mistake. If not then it will show that people should be very careful about how they give and word advice

Whoever said that grandparents can bury their head in the sand may have a point but my MIL was the first to point out a developmental delay in another granddaughter. I trust her because although she doesn't see my ds at nursery she also has concerns about how this has been handled and she has extensive experience with pre schoolers for which she got an MBE.

I am not stupid and neither is my family. We don't recoil in horror at the idea there may be imperfections in our children. My ds is the same lovely wee boy and always will be whatever the outcome of this. He is only four and not even in school yet.

This is all I have to say because I really must stop looking on the internet it isn't doing me any good. I have RL support from a lovely family and my MIl is coming over for a chat and a cuppa just now. I wish you well and I am sure your intentions were good but rest assured I am not ignoring this and my ds will be loved and helped in any way which is needed.

why wont you get him assessed just incase? wouldn't you rather know?

"I want to know this is affecting his learning and development" - yes, makes perfect sense. However, who, now, do you trust to make this judgement? I'm assuming you no longer trust the opinion of the nursery worker - fair enough. You say you need more evidence - who do you trust to provide that evidence?

Your GP won't be able to do that, as he won't be able to observe your DS at home/at nursery which is what would be required.

I'm glad you have a supportive family, that's great. But if there is any suggestion of anything amiss, you are going to need someone who is not related/your Dr/a nursery worker you don't trust to make an educated observation.

"I want to know this is affecting his learning and development and then I will move the earth to get the help he needs. "

why wait til it is already causing problems for him in school when you have have the assesment done before then and get all the help he will need for school in place before he starts.

also you talk of moving the earth. why not start now?

I think what people are saying roseability is:

1. It's very common for pre-school to be the first environment these traits are picked up on - this is very normal, whether or not the child goes on to be diagnosed as austistic.

1. Your child is not going to be 'labelled' or in any way harmed by going through an assessment process, which in any case takes up to 18 months. There are not people out there who are desperate to diagnose children as austistic when they are not - probably more the opposite in fact. There are many parents who are desperate for their children to be referred and assessed who are have to fight tooth and nail for what you're being offered, and are turning down without a second thought.

With my Ds1 he always seemed to be different, which sounds daft but that's how it was and from the age of 2.5 I was thinking ASD. I wasn't the only one and at 2 years 9 months he was diagnosed as being on the spectrum. Now he's 7.5 and has HFA, which means he still has significant difficulties with communication and social interaction, with understanding and has a good deal of routines and obsessions. He also has very strong hyperlexic traits.
At the age of 2 I felt sure that Ds2 was not on the spectrum. He was "just" speech delayed. He appeared to understand well, eye pointed at things, had the expected stranger anxiety and was very good at getting his needs met. By 3 his speech had still not come on and he'd lost almost all of the few he had. His playgroup helper asked if the SENCO could be brought in "to help bring him on". It transpired that not only was he not joining in with the others, he required one to one support just to keep him in the play area and focused on things other than trying to nab the snacktime biscuits or play in the toilets. He was diagnosed at the age of 3 years 11 months with autistic spectrum disorder.
He's now 5 years 3 months, non verbal, in nappies full time. He can't dress himself beyond pulling a pair of jogging bottoms up or putting his arms in his sleeves. When his class were making face puppets last week he had no idea where to put the nose, eyes etc. He has severe learning difficulties. We found out the other day, via us asking him to put something in Ds1's bedroom and him bringing it happily to Ds1 that he appears to focus on one part of an instruction, regardless of whether it is accurate or not.
Sometimes it is difficult to be sure at a very young age.

I can see that you are really upset roseability. I fully understand why and I don't want to add to your distress.

Can I just make a suggestion though? My DS1 sounded very similar to your DS when he was that age (he is 10 now). His nursery thought there was something amiss. In the end, I talked to my HV and she actually went to observe DS at nursery as DS didn't know her and his behaviour wouldn't be influenced by her presence. She was just another adult. She made no attempt to diagnose but just went to watch and see if he was different in any way. Following the visit she thought there was enough differences for want of a better word, to justify a referral, via our GP to the paed.

Would you feel comfortable doing something similar? Get somebody neutral like your HV to go and observe your DS. The others are right a GP can't diagnose ASD, they don't have the expertise and family are biased. Of course your DS's family don't want to think anything is wrong but that doesn't mean to say there isn't.

It turns out my DS is very mildly affected but it does have an impact on his life. Maybe your DS is very mild too and like my DS the traits become more apparent when he is outside his comfort zone which is home.

Personally I would rather know this than not know this but I think DS could still have functioned in school without a dx. Having one just makes like simpler in many ways.

Well your son wouldn't end up with a label if he had a few traits. Many assessments end up with no further action taking or a watch and wait approach.

I was suggesting an assessment not because I think he has autism (I have no idea, I have never met him) but because from a practical point of view it makes sense to get on a waiting list before you have big concerns.

We had big concerns and were told the waiting list for the complex communication disorders team was 2 and a half YEARS. Now had I known that I could have signed him up at birth and then we would have had the appointment at the time we had concerns (joke, but you get the idea). Instead we moved and he was was seen within 6 months (which was still over a year after I first raised concerns and 6 months after we were getting desperate for help - and still people were saying 'ooh no he's far too sociable/affectionate/friendly/able to use eye contact etc etc'

I also do tend to point out on these threads that autism (and other communicaton disorders) are very subtle in their early development. Nor do they tend follow the stereotypes- especially in familiar environments. Wiating lists and waits for assessment though are entirely predictable. I sit locally on a panel for an early intervention program. It's good and well run and provides 15 hours 1:1 per week for children with communication type disorders (no diagnosis needed). The problem it has had all along is finding the children. They're out there, but rather than turning up at 2 they show up the term before they start school (which is hopeless) - and they have missed out on such good possibilities and the chance to make a difference early on.

So yes I'm all for assessments. Especially as in my experience the children who don't need the support are identified at that stage. Mistaken diagnosis isn't really a problem in the UK.

ok rose, hope everything goes well.

remember the mn sn board is around later down the line if you need any info about assessment/ dx etc.

OK, well, I am sorry if this has upset you, rose. Good luck.

key worker just blanked me again today

This is very unprofessional and she cannot have my ds best interests at heart if she won't maintain lines of communication open with me. I wanted to see his profile as it wasn't in his draw and felt I couldn't approach her to ask for it

Sorry but I will be going elsewhere for any assessments. I don't like nor trust this woman now, but I could happily communicate with her for my son's sake so she should do the same.

Can you not see that this is unprofessional and why I would not trust her judgement?

No I am sure she didn't raise this with me because she delights in causing concern but I do question some of her motives based on her subsequent actions

you do know it wouldn't be her carrying out the assessment dont you?

you know if she was truly passionate about my son and his welfare then her reasoning should be 'I have got to keep a line of communication open with this woman'

I think she was being ambitious and trying to prove herself by picking up some minor traits - maybe as someone suggested she has just been on a course. I can't help but think she is backing out because she realises she has overstepped the mark

If I am wrong and my ds does have autism, shame on her for not approaching this in a more professional manner and potentially jeopordising the process

At no point was I agressive with her or rude. I listened to her concerns and took them on board. It was reflection on how this was handled that I took it higher and by god was I entitled to do so. I also thought that if there is a concern with my ds the head of the nursery should know our faces and have a relationship with us. What is wrong with that? Just caring sensible parents.

If she is pissed I did this then she should have the professionalism to overide that for my son's sake and talk with me. I smiled at her and went to say hello and she turned around and walked to the other side of the nursery without a hello

I am not ignoring this and I will speak to GP on friday and my health visitor. As I said i do have contacts and haven't ruled out an assessment but I want to step back and suss this situation first.

This really, really is my last post. thanks for your time and I have noted your points and advice. I hope I won't have to join SN board but I know it is there should I need support in the furture

maybe she is scared of you and anything she might say will be taken the wrong way. justa guess though

I would say that since last tiem she spoke ot you, raising concenrs about your son, you went straight off half cocked and complained about her, instead of maintaining that line of communication you now crave - made an appt immediately with the deputy head, enquired about her at the council (htese htings don't always go one way, you know) - I should think she is scared stiff of saying anything at all to you.

if you really wanted those lines of communicaiton kept open, you would have approached her, not her boss, to ask her to explain her concerns more fully. and in your shoes I would certainly have never made waves back at the council over this.

you are just looking for any reason to be right ohforboonesssake because I have got your back up on this thread. Some of you seem scary tbh if you don't see this as unprofessional.

I am not scary, why the heck would she be scared of me? You have no idea how my conversations with her went or what my manner was. I was scared of her! I am just stressed and upset because I love my ds.

What I am scary because I didn't like my son's potetial autism getting discussed in ear shot of him and others

your issues with the key worker are totally valid and need addressing

rose, everybody on this thread has agreed it was handled unprofessionally.

but you know what? you aren;t the first this has happened to (erm, again, just about everyone on the thread has had similar happen) and you certainly won't be the last.

you do seem to be more hung up on the un-professional angle than the concerns she has raised.

But she discussed this in earshot of half the bloody nursery - do I not have a right to complain about that?

Or that a diagnosis of autism was being suggested based on lack of evidence?

I had several conversations with her before I went to deputy head. that was partly because I think we should have a relatioship with her if there are problems with my ds

Is no one allowed to complain anymore if they have concerns?

oh my god do i have to scream it from the rooftops

I HAVE NOTED THE CONCERNS

I believe them and I want them monitored

do you guys take delight in distressing a mother who is already distraught

Just horrible

yes, complain,for sure. she was unproffesional, but don't let that get in the way of the issues she has potentially raised

if they had been raised more profesionally or my someone else, would you still be not wanting to explore this any further?

x post

and you are suggesting that I would put that before my precious son and any help he may need. What do you think I am?

why on earth would my back be up? really now!! last time i looked this was your thread. what makes you think i have an axe to grind here?