Anyone had problems with pre school? I think they are trying to label my son as autistic

[roseability]

I am pretty sure my ds keyworker was suggesting my ds is on the autistic spectrum

We are confident this is not the case, as at home and at family functions he shows no signs

We had a meeting today with the deputy head of the school (who oversees the nursery) as we had some concerns about how this has been handled

Does anyone else have experience of this?

It seems you have taken on board what has been said at nursery but only in a very negative way and have assumed that they are wrong. Like others have said the sooner you get it checked out the better. Even with good contacts (ds's GP is a paediatric registrar and good at pulling strings) it still takes time to go through the process and assessment, even if as in ds's case the conclusion was he isn't autistic but has memory issues.

If I had ignored what I was told he wouldn't have got the support he needed at the time he needed. None of his issues at school were any way apparent at home or even to the well qualified GP and weren't picked up by the cons paed he saw every 6 weeks from birth until he was 4.5 yrs. It only became apparent in yr 1 at school when his intelligence wasn't enough to mask the issues he was having.

for fuck sake I am really upset now

I have not slept or eaten properly for a week and come on here for support and just get flamed

So MollieO do you think a child not following instructions a couple of times and prefering one toy over another warrants an ASD diagnosis and referral for assessment?

I am not assuming they are wrong. This might be an issue but I want to give it more time and see if it settles down. This is a new environment for him. Why are you so agressive and suggesting I am not doing the best for ds when I just want to step back and look at more evidence

I adore my ds and want the best for him. I made the mistake by posting because you seem to project your issues onto me.

I am not ignoring what they have said. They have said my ds is fine developmentally and this is not consistent. I don't see why I need to rush into anything when he isn't even at school yet and to all intents and purposes is a happy, thoughtful wee boy who isn't having major problems at nursery

That is me. I have been on mumsnet for years and every so often I vow to leave because of the agressiveness and I am convinced this is not representative of the true population. This has been the final straw and I know it is time when I am weeping over my laptop at midnight. I will stick to my RL friends and family.

The Stately Homers were brilliant though

i think as a parent of children with ASD, I know the effects of leaving a dx too late (DD1) and the wonderful effect early dx has (dd2) and some of the other posters know this too, we also know how long assessments take, so to see you saying "lets wait" is hard to hear.
Please try not to get too upset, its always hard to hear that someone has a concern about LOs development and as parents we always take anything about our children very personally.
Everyone is trying to give good advice and i guess the problem is with being online is its hard to understand everyones intentions.

What I did with DD is to keep a diary of her behaviours, it helped me sort my head out and see her behaviours for what they were.

roseability - seriously, you are really over-reacting to posts here. You are not being flamed. No-one has been aggressive. People have simply said what their experiences have been.

You sounds overwrought and anxious though - this has obviously really upset you. Hope you're getting some support in rl and have someone to talk to. What does your dp/dh think about it?

All people have said is either you take on board what the nursery staff said (regardless of how badly managed it was) and look into any help your ds needs. Or you are confident they have it completely wrong. In which case maybe this isn't the best nursery for him.

No-one can make this decision for you. No-one here knows your ds so can possibly make an informed comment about what he may or may not have, or whether he needs any further assessment. If you don't think he does, then don't do it. If you've got any worries, then do.

I certainly know I had niggles about my ds for ages and ages before I got my head out of my arse and did something about it. As you say, instinct is key. If you genuinely don't think there's anything to worry about, then just let it go.

OP if you don't want advice then don't post asking for it!

I have no 'issues' to project, just my experience. I know I am very lucky that ds has had access to superb medical care from birth (he was prem and I was told he was unlikely to survive) and is at a school that probably takes a bit too much interest in his progress (disadvantage of small classes!).

Unlike the dd of a friend, his issues were identified early and won't have a detrimental effect on his education as they have been addressed, supported and virtually solved. Certainly by the start of yr 3 he will be exactly where he should be.

If I had ignored what educational professionals said to me and went with my instinct I'm not sure we'd be in such a positive place now.

maybe take a week or two and come back to the thread and re-read. no-one has flamed you at all, everyone is saying 'don't instantly dismiss what the keyworker has noticed and assume she is wrong' based on our own experiences of (our) children in different settings/ difficulties with dx/ poor advice for professionals/ refusal of lea to take concerns seriously etc etc.

none of us have any clue whether your ds is on the spectrum or not - we all know how difficult it can be to hear your child has probelms and the instant denial that can kick in. we don't know if this applies to you or not, but your op sounded a little like this.

as i said, your posts remind me a lot of another mner, who now accepts her son's dx and is fighting for the provision he needs.

good luck with everything - hopefully the nursery workers fears will be unfounded. i have yet to meet a child carer who takes delight in worrying parents unnecessarily - but sometimes, obviously, their fears are founded.

My BIL is a child psychologist and was incredulous when I mentioned ASD with respect to my DS.

However, over several months, having seen him a few more times, he can see what I'm saying.

He doesn't see DS all the time whereas I do and his nursery workers do.

I'm sorry you have felt got at on this thread, though it's a bit puzzling reading it from an objective point of view. Nobody has been remotely aggressive.

You may not know it but all the respondents are replying because they care. The majority have been almost exactly where you are and they desperately don't want you to do things you might regret in the future.

I guarantee they are all rooting for you to have the experience which sadly they did not - for all fears of ASD to prove to be unfounded. That's what we all hope for in the early days.

Good post LisaD

My son is only very mildly affected by autism, and I would describe him as being normal at home. (Or what has become normal for us).

I don't think anybody has been unkind to you. If it turns out that your son is not on the spectrum at all, then there is no harm done. People are urging you to just get your child assessed! and then when it turns out that he's NT you can take great pleasure in announcing that to the key worker.

Are you going to get your child assessed?

I was devastated when my son was dx. We've all had that moment of receiving a dx. Not just a 'concern' but a dx. That is a million times more upsetting than a concern, because that can be brushed aside.

However, after two years of ABA in an excellent school he is doinng brilliantly. I still remember when a woman said to me "bum shuffling is he, that can mean autism". I wanted to kill her!!!! but the weird thing is, she turned out to be right. You talkingtome is right, I think people remember their first moments like that and they are rooting for you.

When I say you I meant Roseability!

I would just line up for assessments to be honest. They take years (or can do) and you can always cancel if not needed.

Aged 2 my son knew alll his colours, numbers letters, had good eye contact, was sociable and loving etc etc. I had concerns because he wasn't following or using a point. The nursery then raised concerns (very badly - in fact they were bloody awful and they treated him badly as well so I took him out) burly anyway although I was livid with them I did see a HV who referred him to a specialist (asd) SALT for assessment.

His sociability and good eye contact fooled her and we were told that he 'definitely isn't autistic' and he was diagnosed with 'mild language delay'

Well it became clear after a of months that was rubbish but by then we were at the bottom of any
waiting list and he didn't get seen until we moved about a year kater where he was diagnosed with ASD.

He's nearly 12 now, still very loving and sociable and
still with fab eye contact. He can use and follow points and can imitate now as well. His understanding is poverty good but he can't talk and he is definitely severely autistiic.

Personally I think chikdren who don't understand that they do the same as the rest of the group should have an eye kept o them - I say that because that was how I knew that ds2 and ds3 were fine. They had a built in
understanding from an early age that in a group they would sit etc when the others did - a sort of understanding of following the group- ds3 was a bit slower than ds2 to pick that up and I did have some concerns about him for a while (no more he's 6 now and clearly fine but I watched him carefully until about 3).

I would go for a assessment because they take forever - that sometimes lead into something good and helpful but sometimes don't. If it doesn't feel too much pressure you coud look at RDI or floortime and see what you think about doing some yourself. I pick those as they both can be done very low key and are useful for NT kids as well - so it doesn't matter whether there's anything to notice or not. I used both with my NT sons in a very low key way.

Oh god sorry about typos bloody iPad!

Poverty = pretty etc etc.

MN needs an edit function!

I do understand the issue with the nursery as well. Even though I already had some concerns (that no-one e,se shared by the way - so family were very non supportive at the time) they nursery still made me feel an awful mother (they told me I didn't seem to care, at I spoke to him too much, the 2 minutes later I didn't speak to him enough). They were awful - I took him out for a few months then put him in a wondefuk nursery when we moved - totally diffrerent experience.

ps2 youtalkingtome yes, early intervention is so key and when my son first went to his school I was still really angry and thought it was all a load of nonsense. I thought they were over-reacting, thought they hadn't got kids themselves, but I'm so glad now that I didn't refuse to let him go. two years of ABA would do anybody the world of good! Any child! it's just a different way of teaching. I 'allowed' my son to go to school for ABA becauase I believed that it couldn't harm him. That was two years ago. NOW I am in love with his school, his tutors, everybody down there. And I repeat for Roseabilty, my son is mildly autistic. I can even take him to the cinema now (Despicable me!). We can go for pizza. He is not visibly autistic.

Over the two years the 'label' autistic spectrum becomes so miuch more elastic and less black or white.. You look around at your friends husband, your colleague, your husband's brother perhaps, and you think, you guys too!

I hope that makes sense.

"personally I think that children who don't understand that you do the same as the rest of the group need to have an eye kept on them"

Saintly, I completely agree with this. My son looked me in the eye, he was affectionate, he eventually spoke (!) but he was never motivated to do anything just because everybody else was. I look back on my school days now and remember the children we thought of as being bold boys and think, oh bless them. They got no support.

Rose, I'm sorry you were upset by my comment. If you 've been around these boards for a long time then you will know how common it is for people to moan that their child is under stretched, and to blame all sorts of bad behaviour on a bright child being under stimulated.

You seem very volatile on this thread. As you say, maybe now would be a good time to get some RL support. Just be careful of shooting the messenger. If you go off on one with the nursery then they will not feel able to raise any further concerns with you and that will not help.

I had some concerns raised about my DD when she was 3 or 4...I can't quite remember how old she was...no older than 4 certainly. Anyway...she was hugely shy to the point of not speaking to any adults at all and would completely overreact if something did not go her way...we'r'e talking lying down and screaming uncontrolably in the playground.

The HT said that if it didn't improve then they woul assess her...it did improve though and she's now 6 with no issues at all.

I just wanted to share that with Rose.

"children who don't understand that you do the same as the rest of the group need to have an eye kept on them"

jimjams, that's such a good point, and if we'd thought about it earlier for DS2 we might have spared him a lot of problems. Just because he's so unlike DS1 (classically Aspergers) we assumed he had no signs of autism, despite him always seeming out of step with the group doing his own thing, but usually quite cheery and happy about it, whereas DS1 would become mute, stubborn, anxious, panicky, and therefore much more noticeable.

Come secondary school for DS2, and things are just crashing round him, whereas DS1 (who gets the help) is flourishing.

OP, a good friend of mine met DS1 for the first time when he was 2, and blurted out after half an hour, 'Is he autistic? I saw a programme about it...' Like you, I was furious (hard to remember why now).

Eh? Where did the crossing out come from??

Have just had a quick read through this thread.

Rose you have not been flamed at all. You just didn't like the responses to your post. It's not the same thing.

You've received some very helpful advice from what I can see. Hope you slept last night and are feeling a bit calmer today.

It would be a shame to leave MN as, if there is an issue with your DS, it looks to me like you will have plenty of others to turn to who have been through it.

What screams out at me from this thread, rose, is that you are partly taken aback and quite frightened by what the nursery worker was suggesting, but also outraged that she has 'slighted' your child in this way. It may not be how you consciously feel, but it comes across very strongly here.

It does seem that the nursery have handled this badly.

But it also seems that you are being overly defensive. There is no need to be. People don't bandy about terms like 'SEN' for fun. Any concerns raised or support/assessment offered will only be in the long term interests of your child.

And do not worry about your child being labelled 'autistic'. I had to beg, scream, shout, cry and demand for 3 tears to have my child diagnosed, so it is completely improbable that the opinion of one nursery worker is going to end up with your child being diagnosed behind your back!

There is no way a nursery nurse could instigate an assessment into autism, btw. Not a proper one. Who has she referred you to (the forms?).

I know it is hard to keep perspective when it is your own baby, but please don't feel under attack on this thread. I am sure nobody wants to make you feel bad, and nobody with an autistic child would dream of suggesting your child is or isn't autistic, either way, because we all know that it isn't that simple.

FYI, just to clear something up in general on this thread - my (Asperger's) DS is in the top 1% for verbal reasoning and 0.4% for non-verbal reasoning in his age group, he was reading fluently at 3 yrs old, he is highly imaginative, has a great sense of humour, is very popular, doesn't display any strikingly strange or obsessive behaviours looks 'normal' to all intents and purposes. His behaviour only really started to hint at a problem at nursery and got progressively worse in school (inability to join in group activities or take instruction from teacher, finding the social constraints of school very stressful). being diagnosed has been nothing but a GOOD thing. He gets the understanding and support he needs.

ASC comes in all sorts of shapes and guises.

Sorry to hijack but am I correct in the assumption that assesment comes before any diagnosis? Not trying to sound patronising but am genuinely interesed incase I have misinterpreted.

I think a lot of these problems initially raise their heads at pre-school. This was certainly the case with my friends DS and his aspergers.

Is it helpful to try thinking about it as if it were a food allergy? Imagine that the pre-school have suggested that your DS may be allergic to brazil nuts because he has developed a rash on his face when he's been near them at nursery. Now you've never seen a problem with your DS & brazil nuts, and neither is developing a rash on one occasion enough for a diagnosis of allergy. But instead of reacting angrily and complaining about the keyworker, wouldn't you be more likely to agree that it would benefit from further investigation? If there's no allergy, then that's great, but if there is, better to know sooner rather than later, before things escalate.

I don't understand why you are so against any sort of initial assessment?

If the nursery worker collared you in a public place and told you, out of the blue, that she thought your DS had problems, then yes this was an insensitive way to approach it and is likely to have knocked you sideways. My sympathies. However, she hasn't, and isn't capable of, giving your DS a "label" - she is merely suggesting that people more trained and independent than herself (and you, and his GPs) take a look at him.

I don't understand why you appear to be so intransigently against this. If there is nothing amiss, then the assessment will show this. If there is anything that your DS needs some support for, then it will show this too. Surely this can't be a bad thing any way round?

OP can i just ask, what harm can an assessment do? surely it would be ebtter to set the ball rolling for an assessment now, especially if, as other say, it can take 18 months to get one? i personally would rather know sooner rather than later if my child had any additional needs. in the interim 18 months (or however long) both you at home and teh staff at nursery can make observations and keep a note of any concerns. i dont understand your reluctance to have him assessed.