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Preppers

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Prepping for a pandemic....5

994 replies

wheresmymojo · 20/02/2020 15:49

5th thread on prepping for a pandemic and following the risk of a COVID pandemic.

Anxiety

As Preppers we tend to look at a reasonable worst case scenario to plan for. Everyone is welcome on the thread but if you find it makes you anxious be kind to yourself and think about sticking to once daily updates from the BBC or similar Thanks

General COVID Info

The estimated replication rate is R= 2 to 4 based on latest expert estimates. This means each infected person spreads the virus to between 2 and 4 people. Experts estimate that, unchecked, it could infect 60% of the population.

Around 15-20% of cases are thought to be severe - that is resulting in the need for hospitalisation. Around 3-5% requiring ventilation.

The estimated mortality rate is around 1-2% at the moment (compared to 0.01-0.1% for flu). This may change as it is very difficult to estimate mortality.

Children tend to have milder symptoms. Those over 60 with underlying health issues and a history of smoking are more likely to be severe (although not exclusively this type of person).

Spread of COVID

It is estimated that the average incubation period is 3-5 days but can be as long as 24 days.

It can be spread with no symptoms.

It can be spread via droplet (cough/sneeze), aerosol (breathing same air in very close quarters), bodily fluids, fecal/oral route and formites (via surfaces, up to 28 days in the right circumstances but up to 3-5 days in more typical circumstances).

Updates

As this is a novel virus and knowledge is constantly being updated - I will post updates as they become available with links to source.

I am not a medical expert so any opinions or conjecture of my own should be taken with a pinch of salt!

Prepping Scenarios

Most of us are prepping for the following situations:

  • Wanting to stay indoors for 2-4 weeks + in case of a local outbreak / schools being closed
  • Potentially being ill with a flu type illness lasting 2-3 weeks with one or more of the household having the illness
  • Having to take a family member to hospital for COVID or any other reason during an outbreak

Prepping Items

Threads 1&2 have lists of things to think about to prep for the first scenario as do the Brexit prepping threads.

Main differences/additions to something like the Brexit list are:

  • Face masks if you can get them for any trips you have to make in public during an outbreak. These don't offer full protection and cannot be 100% relied upon but are probably better than nothing if you make sure you wear them correctly and dispose of them correctly. N95 masks are best but expensive and harder to wear, surgical face masks are second best. Dust masks are not going to help.
  • Hand sanitiser needs to be 60% or more alcohol content
  • Dettol / bleach / Miltons to disinfect. Not all disinfectants work but these three do
  • Plenty of at home/over counter treatments for flu type symptoms should you need to treat at home
  • Tissues (lots of) should you catch the virus
  • Think about meals that are easy to cook and eat should you be ill or both parents be ill at the same time (soup for example)
  • For a potential hospital trip you may want to prep a 'go bag' should you need to take someone to hospital with the virus (or anything else) during an outbreak. See Thread 1&2 for examples of what people are packing
  • Frequent and thorough hand washing, not touching your face and social distancing (no handshakes, hugs, etc) are some of the most effective ways to stay virus free

Other Thoughts

India have announced that they are stopping exports of some antibiotics, hormone treatments and vitamin supplements as they rely on China for raw materials.

Many factories that supplied fibre for use in sanitary towels and tampons are being diverted to manufacture face masks. Consider stocking up or changing to sustainable items (cloth STs, mooncup, period pants)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
BlackeyedSusan · 21/02/2020 20:08

Not run them short... ( All the right words, not necessarily in the right order)

FelicityFebruary · 21/02/2020 20:09

I agree the Italian measures are reassuring. By slowing any spread it stops the surge of pressure on health services.

Keep on keeping on people.

ShanghaiDiva · 21/02/2020 20:11

@AvocadoOwl
Office workers are due to go back to work on 24th Feb, shops will reopen too and private health clinics. This is in my city in Jiangsu (not sure about other areas) so the health authorities will need to plan for a spike in cases due to these changes.

ShanghaiDiva · 21/02/2020 20:18

I really don’t think this is an end of days scenario. In my city in China you can get supplies, no problems with power and utilities, pharmacies are open and office workers are due to go back on 24th. My hairdresser is opening up next week after a month- small signs! What happens next week with more people moving about will be key and I am sure a spike in cases is expected.

AbsentmindedWoman · 21/02/2020 20:19

@YoursTunbridgeWells Flowers

I am no stranger to health anxiety (not about coronavirus) as unfortunately I have an autoimmune condition that wreaks havoc on my body.

What I do know though, is that anxiety will lie to you. It will have you 100% believing the worst is inevitable, that it's just a matter of time. This simply is not true.

The reality is the odds are very much in your favour, as someone living in the UK. As other posters have mentioned, even Spanish Flu didn't wipe out the human population. Yes, if it spreads things might get chaotic and scary but globally we do have a lot of weapons in the armoury.

People are working on effective ways to treat this, as well as vaccines. In the West at least, we tend to be well-nourished and vaccinated against some of the opportunistic secondary infections.

Again in high income countries, people with long term illness are (for the most part) in better shape than those who have limited access to healthcare - that will shift outcomes at population level too. Stuff like high blood pressure and diabetes and asthma will be better managed.

We have good sanitation and access to clean water so can really step up the collective hygiene game.

We have information sharing and collaboration on a global scale like never before, this gives us an edge too, both on a personal level and at a societal one.

Your feeling of utter fear is real I know, but feelings are not the same as facts. Your anxiety is lying to you Flowers Please don't frighten your kids, it isn't necessary. It will not make you feel better - I don't think this kind of anxiety can be satisfied by prepping and reassurance seeking, it will just continue to expand until you get some more appropriate help. Could your doctor write you a short term prescription for something to help calm you down?

As ever, those living in parts of the world with gross health inequities are going to be most at risk.

YoursTunbridgeWells · 21/02/2020 20:40

Whilst is very kind and thoughtful of people to suggest I seek help, rest assured I already have. I can go and see my gp next week if I need. I can speak to DH, friends etc etc in the meantime.

I can see lots of other people panicking on this thread , reporting updates the second they arrive in the news, analysing the profile of the ill, trying to determine what this means. I understand we’re all seeking to learn, understand and find the positive but at the same time it’s also finding all the negatives. So maybe others don’t extrapolate what that might mean, I simply voice the worst case scenario which is more likely if you’re like dh and I. That’s what we prep for.

There have been some helpful posts suggesting a practical list of people to call and perhaps not involving DC in choosing guardians. I chose years ago and asked the person but i still would like to know what the DC would think of our choice. DH is mr Chill so would veto anything he thought unwise.

Personally, I find these “please seek help posts” exemplify and perpetuate the stigma associated with mental health issues. The mumsnet post may or may not be automatic, but it looks like it’s there for legal reasons. I’m sorry to say I personally find this type of response patronising and highly likely to make things much worse. (Everyone with MH issues has a different experience - for some one response is effective for another it can be the polar opposite.)
However I do appreciate hearing about other people’s health anxiety.
I appreciate that I may have upset some people or frightened them with worst case stuff and I genuinely sorry for that. I always work from the face your worst nightmares head on approach rather than ostrich, which is probably selfish to share.

Neome · 21/02/2020 20:54

Hi YoursTunbridgeWells I just thought I’d mention that while I have a different coping and panicking strategy someone in my extended family who has ASC practices ’defensive pessimism’ which works for them.

I can find it a bit tricky when every cough is seen as potential lung cancer but they find it helps them cope with otherwise overwhelming anxiety.

We don’t know all the ins and outs of why some of us will buy UHT, others freeze cows milk, others stock up on plant milk and others prefer dried. I think we help each other most when we say ”this is what I do”.

However you choose to prepare practically, emotionally or spiritually I wish you clear sighted courage and all the virtual and real life support you want.

FourTeaFallOut · 21/02/2020 21:00

YourTunbridgeWells

If we are looking at the very worst case scenario, with no attempt to curtail the virus with quarantines then each person has a 60% chance of getting this virus. The chance of both of you getting this virus is therefore 38%

I know you are worried so let's suppose that you are both 80. I know you are not but let's suppose you have a pre-existing condition that is worrying you, so worse case scenario, let's say you both are in the very highest CFR rate of 15%. Therefore the chance of you BOTH dying would be 0.0225

But to risk you both dying you'd both have to be unlucky enough to both catch it so for both events to occur, both to catch it and both to die from it...that's 0.000855

I don't know if that helps but I thought it might. If you still find that worrying, bear in mind that an individual chance of catching it won't actually be 60% because the government will start containing this with quarantines so actually this 60% wont look anything like that in practice.

If that's still worrying, bear in mind the the highest cfrs were reported before they found promising results with antivirals and possibly antimalarials.

You really don't need to worry about this worst case scenario in your head it's so vanishingly small it's worth dismissing it.

ChipotleBlessing · 21/02/2020 21:03

@YoursTunbridgeWells frankly based on your posts your anxiety is putting your children at risk. I don’t care if it’s patronising, for their sake you need to repeat everything you’ve said here to a professional in real life.

KundaliniRising · 21/02/2020 21:04

YoursTunbridgeWells we are here for each other, to reassure, help, listen to and share. I just wish to send you a (((hug))).

We will together get there 🤗

AvocadoOwl · 21/02/2020 21:05

@FourTeaFallOut Wow, what a powerful message! Brilliant. Made me feel better if no one else!! 👏

ChipotleBlessing · 21/02/2020 21:05

Amazon have some p3 masks available on Prime now

NearlySchoolTimeAgain · 21/02/2020 21:31

@CrapTVAddict

Your family are 6/7 hours away. They're safe for now I hope.

I live in the Veneto region. It's Carnevale time.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 21/02/2020 21:35

Nearly will you be contacting the health authorities again? I'm sorry that you've all been so poorly. I hope you all feel better very soon.

MindfullWWer · 21/02/2020 21:38

Hi everyone, I have been following with interest, thanks for previous posters wisdom with this. I have a quick question about the Eclipse mask that lasts 4 weeks, with the filter replaceable. My question is, if you wear it, say in A&E, surely that mask is no longer safe to wear once you are back home etc? In which case the disposible ones (which are only effective a couple of hours ish) would seem the safest option? Or have I missed something?

planningaheadtoday · 21/02/2020 21:42

@FourTeaFallOut thank you for that. I'm very anxious too being a (long ago) ex smoker and now having a compromised immune system.
I've been planning for worst case. Your statistics have helped my outlook tonight.

FelicityFebruary · 21/02/2020 21:43

FourTeaFallOut, my mum is over 80 and I was worrying about her health last night, and thought of just that estimated CFR rate. (I'd been watching that nurse educator on YouTube!) I decided it was in fact reassuring compared with the catastrophising I'd been doing and so managed to "park" that concern.

YoursTunbridgeWells I'd send a hug but I'm sticking to a prepper wave these days! Hope you understand. Flowers

LinesmanMinnelli · 21/02/2020 21:43

@YoursTunbridgeWells a year or so ago I was seriously considering how I could make sure my kids and I all died together in the circumstance that I was suffering extreme anxiety.
It seemed completely credible to me, and I was sure I was doing the best for us all. However I was very ill and completely unable to rationalise or think clearly.
I was put on citalopram and with hind and clear sight I know I was completely unreasonable and frankly dangerous. Please seek help this weekend. Not being patronising, just recognising myself in you.

LinesmanMinnelli · 21/02/2020 21:44

*suffering extreme anxiety about

NearlySchoolTimeAgain · 21/02/2020 21:49

OYBBK - I'm going to see how DH is tomorrow. I feel fluey now too. We're both dosed up and in bed. Don't really want to go to the local hospital since it has CV patients.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 21/02/2020 21:53

I don't blame you at all Nearly, but it does sound like you might need to be assessed. Do they have a facility where you can call ahead and let them know what's going on?

I really feel for you.

nellodee · 21/02/2020 21:55

Where is this information about a past history of smoking increasing risk coming from? I'm pretty well informed, but I've missed that one.

pemberlyshades · 21/02/2020 21:57

@nellodee I quit in January- was feeling quite proud of myself until now! Grin

AmelieTaylor · 21/02/2020 22:07

@nellodee

It’s HERE

I have no idea how credible it is though

nellodee · 21/02/2020 22:10

I've done a quick google and can't find anything quickly and easily.
Does it come from this?

^Saskia Popescu, an epidemiologist at the Honor Health medical group in Arizona, told Business Insider that anyone with a history of smoking would be more vulnerable to this coronavirus.

"Since COVID-19 is a respiratory disease and often causes pneumonia, having a history of smoking could increase the risk of more severe respiratory distress or pneumonia," she said.

More data is needed to confirm the theory, though. ^