36 in June, pregnant with 1st after 5 months with OH who doesn’t want it

[Firegirl35]

Hi girls I’ve been reading and lurking but really need to share my situation for some advice..

I’m 35, no children and have found out I’m pregnant. I’ve been with the father just 5 months, we have had a rushed relationship as first date in July and then I moved in 2 weeks later mainly due to my house purchase falling through... I’ve now bought a house that needs some work doing and am currently still living with him.

He’s 37, has a 6 year old daughter and 8 year old son from a previous LTR which he was devastated ended in her having an affair, telling him she didn’t love him anymore and tearing the family apart. He took it hard as he was the same age as his son when the same thing happened to him. When we first got together he said he’s not against having more kids ‘one day’. His mum went on to remarry and have a baby when she was 42, so he is open to it, but also he seems to think age isn’t really a barrier.

We have the kids exactly half the week (so he doesn’t pay ex maintenance), and things have been great until a few weeks ago when his son started having sickness and anxiety at meal times.. he’s asked his dad why he’s not with mummy and even said he doesn’t want Christmas. I don’t know if going between two houses is upsetting for them, but the ex has suggested she has them more. He’s dead against this, he wants to see them more, and he also doesn’t trust that if he gave her maintenance it would actually be spent on the kids. I’m not sure if he’s controlling her with this. I have no relationship with her whatsoever, she seems a bit threatened by the bond I have with her children but I think she’s coming round. The whole situation is new and they are still figuring it out a bit.

Anyway, I tested positive for covid on Nov 30th. I’m a firefighter and once the two weeks isolation ended I still felt very ill with symptoms like fatigue and sickness that weren’t going away... so I got signed off work another 2 weeks. I tried to get anti sickness tablets prescribed, and was asked if I could be pregnant. I took 3 tests which all came back positive and it was confirmed by an out of hours GP an hour later..

I was in total shock and couldn’t stop shaking for hours. I called a male friend who has been very supportive, and I registered with a maternity unit as I wanted an early scan to date me... I think I got pregnant when I was ill, as I stopped taking the pill but we did have sex once. The week before that though I was fatigued, so I don’t know. I have ended up contacting Marie curie for a scan as I knew I could get in there quick, and they booked me in for Xmas eve. We left early but the motorway was closed and the diversion made us late for the appointment, so they wouldn’t see me :(

I told my partner a few days ago, and his reaction was “for fcuk sake”. Then “what are you going to do?” He’s since made it very clear to me in several heartfelt conversations how he feels about it all, that it was wrong as it was a very bad time, he’s still getting his head around the situation he’s in and the fall out from it, the kids aren’t totally settled yet (more his son), and he always swore that if he had kids again it would be when everything was totally right as he wouldn’t want to bring another “broken person” into the world as he puts it. He said that everyone else would think the same, and that it’s just a pill. His ex terminated their third which he was against at the time but thinks they would struggle to cope as they would have had two young ones.. His opinion of abortions now is that they are fine, as she was fine with having the medical one. And he says he’s glad as that’s one less kid he would have messed up. He tells me it wouldn’t work as he knows he’s not ready for another baby now, that it’s Horrific and you need to be rock solid. I think he believes that I will 99% get rid of it, after a frosty day or so we’ve been getting on better even making jokes, but that’s because he thinks I’m definitely having an abortion. If I say something against that, then it’s “I don’t want to argue” “we keep going over it” or “it’s doing my head in”

For me-
I had a surgical abortion at 7 weeks when I was 24. I had only been with the guy 4 months and he lived 200 miles away, he was fairly happy and we were going to keep it but I was scared as I was young, living in a flat with a girlfriend, suffering badly with an eating disorder, and extreme sickness. I told my parents and my mum went mental, made me feel stupid and like a kid and that it was a mistake and I wouldn’t cope. So I ended up going to a clinic, coming away as I couldn’t do it, facing the wrath from my mum and going back to have it. It fcuked me up for years, I went through phases of being completely obsessed with babies to deciding I wanted absolutely nothing to do with them (then my decision was justified). I moved to be with my partner, secretly hated my mum for two years it took me to forgive her in my head. I was with my partner for 8 years, so it would have probably worked out and we only split when I decided to become a firefighter and he didn’t want to move away again.

I told myself at the time of the abortion that I would never do that again. But also as I’ve got older I’ve seen the rough side of life with kids so have a realistic view which makes me appreciate time I’ve had single/free. I know babies/families are hard work, but I see myself with one in the future. (Near or distant not sure). It’s really hard being a step mum/friend figure to my OHs two , and makes me want my own. I missed out on the baby stage and toddlers... ill also never be the one they want when they’re ill, and mums Xmas dinner trumps ours, they want to stay at mums Xmas eve etc... the mum always wins. It hurts. I feel like I love them like my own but I don’t get them if that makes sense, and it makes the pain of not having my own more. I thought before I got pregnant, if it doesn’t work out with me and OH (haven’t been happy with his behaviour- he’s quite lazy, dirty etc round the house, doesn’t pay me compliments, and he’s only an ok dad, he does provide and cook for them and they don’t go without much, but he’d be happy to have DS in a dirty jumper, and sometimes I think he interacts with the dog more than he does me/the kids! Both his other two were unplanned when ex was on the pill, but I think he thinks she planned it , and it’s possible he thinks that now although I have told him I forgot the pill as I was so ill with covid (the sex was consensual btw, no forced sex).

I’m stuck because my heart wants the baby, but I know logically and sensibly it’s not the right time at all. OH said he wants to enjoy life with me more first- go on a holiday together, get each of our houses sorted, have the kids see our relationship develop before bringing a baby into it. But I’m the one who would have to live with it afterwards. And I’ll be 36 when the baby is born, what if this is my last chance? I can get my house completed in a few months so that will be straight, and although my parents live 200 miles away they miss me and both retired last year so I think they would move down into the 2nd bedroom, if I had to do it alone and we split up. I’ve not told them because of the drama of last time, and don’t want either to tell me to abort because we’ve not been together long. I wanted to make my own mind up and tell them at 3 months when they would have to accept it. My dad is turning 70 in April and my mum 65, this would be their first grandchild and I worked out I would be able to tell them the gender for their birthdays. My girlfriends are supportive of me whatever I decide. I’m the first in our small group to be pregnant and they are all single. I keep thinking, if I abort and we split up down the line, it might be too late to find someone and have a baby with them. On the other hand, if I don’t abort and we split up, at least I’ve got my baby/family and I won’t be too old to find someone new to have a relationship with. If they had kids too I wouldn’t feel like I’m missing out if I didn’t have one as I would have one. But also, I fell pregnant after one incident when 24, and probably only a few now, so if I waited to see if this is the right person, and build up more foundation with him it might not be too late, however I’ll never know.

This is the most difficult decision. I have an appointment at Marie stopes on the 29th for everything- due to them not seeing me on 24th- a scan, medical questionnaire, counselling and the procedure itself if I want to go through with it then. If I don’t I have to wait till 7th jan.
I’m so torn :( Any advice or insights would be much appreciated Thankyou so much

Don’t be too hard on yourself. You are worthy, don’t blame yourself or think you’re not ‘loveable’ due to the fact he said xyz. He’s been an arse and that’s the top and bottom of it, no further analysis necessary! :P

And it’s fine to love someone even when they’re not right for us, we are only human. But just because we love them doesn’t mean they’re the right one for us. Been there, done that.

@Firegirl35

Who will want a single mum? Lots of lovely men! Ask my OH who took me on with 3 kids, one of whom has special needs! We now have a crazy blended family of 6 amazing kiddos and a house full of love and chaos :)

@ChickaboomZoom that sounds lovely! Busy full house/life. Glad you found that.

@Feebs0 Thankyou, how did you get over it?

Out of curiosity I’ve just gone into my old OKCupid account which I deactivated when we started dating, checked my inbox which only has the old messages, there’s loads of messages where it says the sender has deactivated their account... found my message from him, he’s still there. His profile is still live. What an absolute c* . He was probably talking to people the whole time. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s lined one up now to take my place. I’m raging

I certainly have, and it sounds like you are pretty clued up too. I've been around the Relationships Board for years (under different names) and have shared many women's journeys too.

You are far too intelligent and savvy to be taken in any further by him. I know it is hard to just switch off feelings, but keep reminding yourself that this relationship was built on sand, and he has turned nasty so quickly and easily against you when things didn't go as he wanted.

When you are a new mum, you will never be ugly. You should honour and celebrate the amazing thing your body has done in growing another human. Your baby will know you as its whole world. Trust me, nothing else will matter.

And when you are ready to date again, you'll find someone decent who will love you genuinely, because you know all the red flags to avoid. In my late 40s, as a single mum, I found a great guy who accepts me and DC as a unit. Life is very good.

The script says he will have been grooming several women as backups all along. Don't be surprised when he appears to move on very quickly while you are still moping, weeping and feeling lonely. Keep hold of that rage!!! It can be productive in steeling your heart against making silly decisions (to "try again") . You know better.

A man falls in love with a woman regardless of her situation.

My fiancé is currently through playing Xbox with my DS and I love their relationship.
He always says he knew I didn't come as just me and he fell in love with both of us. Don't worry too much about who you'll find, or when, as he's out there and you'll come across him sooner or later.

And while I get where you're coming from about not being able to help who you love, keep telling yourself that you don't want to be with someone who doesn't love you regardless of of much you might love him. You're worth more than that and more than that is out there for the taking....

@BendyLikeBeckham

OP he is a narcissist and you know it. He is not capable of love. He loves himself only.

What you had was a fantasy. He strung you along while you met his needs and when you disobeyed him and asserted your own free will, then he decided he could not tolerate you.

He is punishing you now with coldness to try and bring you back to him. You crave him like a drug. But that drug will destroy you. You must kick the addiction.

Do not let him hoover you back in. Don't spend time missing him. You only miss what you thought he was, and the future you wanted. This was all fake. None of it was true. He lied to you about who he was and how he felt, and will keep doing so while he thinks you will believe it.

You must go cold turkey. Grieve for the relationship you thought you had (but didnt), and the future you hoped for (but never was). But don't let him see you sad, or desperate or lonely. He will use it against you.

Please use your parents for support, and sound off here and to your girlfriends.

This man is not your ally, your friend, or your true life partner and never was. He will hurt you over and over.

Please bookmark this post and reread it when you feel weak and vulnerable to his manipulation tactics.

You are strong. Remember this. And you must be for yourself and your baby.

i agree with this , op would be very wise to have as little contact as possible , just move into the house , dont text , dont phone . talking further now is pointless , really is . just be walking away from this man and focus on her life and the baby . i would have posted my own message along these lines , but im not feeling well tonight to type it all out , but you have summed it all up perfectly

I don’t want him to have anything to do with it as he will ruin the child’s life as he’s incapable of anything other than that... but I also don’t know how to get him completely out my life now. Now that he’s said he doesn’t want to just disappear and have nothing to do with it, as that’s not right for the child not having a father etc... honestly they would be better off with just me, and me without him that I know. How do I ensure he’s out our lives? The only way forward with that that I can see is to have a termination, which would go against everything in me, and I’m bonding already, but I envision their life with him in it and mine too and it’s not good. At all. If I could have the pregnancy end without actually having to end it iykwim I’d do that. Which sounds terrible. But shows the strength of feeling of hatred I have to him and being involved and he will try to ruin our lives one way or another.. he’s got someone over there tonight I know he has as it’s his first chance with me moved out, kids not there, and I don’t have a key. Which is why he was initially upbeat when I went round briefly earlier (looking forward to it), but cagey about me coming round later tonight to talk... he’s 100% narc. And he’ll bring women in and out of my babys life with no second thought, randoms he’ll know a few weeks or months, who I’d never get to vet, and who would destabilise the child by the comings and going’s. And in between those times, he’ll try and sweet talk me and get me round for easy sex and false promises, we’ll start texting more for a couple weeks and I’ll get my hopes up for a family unit, it will then go cold and slow when he finds his next victim and drops me. The first I’d know of it would be dropping the child round and seeing the new girl there... I don’t want my child or me to go through that. I’d end up never meeting someone coz of the roller coaster of it, and the child would be confused by the different female figures and attaching to them or not, whilst also possibly being neglected by one or both of them (and I’d not know what went on). I’m not seeing a way forward now that I’ve been talking to my mum for hours and we’ve been dissecting and swearing over all his behaviours, how similar he actually is to my ex, and how if I have this baby I’ll never be shut of him, he’ll always be in my life. He’ll use the baby to control me- he only says he wants input now so he can control decisions, not because he genuinely wants it. I wish I could snap my fingers and it all be over, without me having to kill something and then have the loss over it. Maybe I Am selfish to keep it, knowing what I know now about him. Sorry if I’m repeating myself, we’re just going in circles over this. I have a back up abortion booked for the 7th just in case I change my mind. I booked it when I felt so unsafe after my last night at his when I had a nightmare he put his hand over my mouth, I took my key back from him and went my house... but I was so scared about the future and then I worked out how much child care would be if I had to pay a sitter for every shift and had no help whatsoever, it was ridiculous amount... both those things made me think I have no real choice, I have to abort life would be unbearable otherwise. I’m swinging between the two again.. I just so wish I was pregnant by someone else and there’d be none of this 😞 Sorry for repeating myself and going on, especially as it’s NYE! I’m not having a standard night lol

@Firegirl35 everything is very raw for you right now. As you said yourself you are still in love with him but have realised that his behaviours have duped you. I don't think you will crumble to his texts as you have this thread to look back on whenever you feel a wobble.

Yes having a baby can be a link but generally once he realises that it's not working as the power tool he wants I think he will get bored.
No court awards shared custody straight away especially in first 6 months if mum is BF. You can request for assessments and also contact centres to start with if worried about his behaviour.
By the way you have described his relationship with his children I doubt very much that he will ever get far down the courts route.
You cross these roads when you get to them I know you are absorbing everything so thinking in advance. A lot of the time those things never occur though.

Did you have another appointment with the counsellor? I suggest doing so if possible you have had a lot to take in the last week and it's going to cause a complete roller-coaster of emotions.

@Firegirl35

Oh gosh it’s all so much isn’t it? I’m really so sorry for all the turmoil you are going through. I say this kindly but perhaps your mum isn’t actually the best and most objective person to be discussing all of this with at the moment, given her previous reaction and her inclination for you to not keep the baby? I only say that because unfortunately I have a similar relationship with my mum who is quite frankly toxic/manipulative in many ways and whenever I ever had any relationship troubles she’d quickly jump on the bandwagon to pressure me into what SHE felt was the right decision for me.

You know this guy is a dick and maybe he will try to be involved in your child’s life - but maybe he won’t? He might get bored of “parenting” between two ex’s and leave you in relative peace. There really is no way to tell but equally if you terminate a much wanted baby you don’t know the outcome there either. I suppose there really isn’t a right answer. I empathise so much with wishing it would all just go away (I felt this when I had to terminate last month) but sadly it’s happened and there are still tough choices to make. And you are still strong and brave no matter what you choose.

I hope you have a lovely NYE regardless. It’s my birthday tomorrow so I am just sitting around eating cake and reminiscing on what a crazy shit year it’s been for so many of us! Huge hugs to you.

It really is a lot. My mums really suprised me as she’s rallied and isn’t judging me or pressuring me, she’s on my team and knows what the baby means to me, she just wishes it was a different man. Both her and dad said they wished it was a sperm donor instead. She wants me to be happy and sees that baby is making me that way but also the potential for the toxic nature of him and how he is with his ex and kids could ruin my life. We are both pulling our hair out at the solution, but you are right it might not be that bad as he might not see them much, and maybe he’ll just do “token” contact so it looks like he’s being a decent person. If it went the other way and he got REALLY manipulative of me/LOs life and things got bad I could always move away, which would take a couple of years to arrange a transfer and sell and buy a house so not to be taken lightly and not a quick solution by any means

I’m not seeing a way forward now that I’ve been talking to my mum for hours and we’ve been dissecting and swearing over all his behaviours, how similar he actually is to my ex, and how if I have this baby I’ll never be shut of him, he’ll always be in my life. He’ll use the baby to control me- he only says he wants input now so he can control decisions, not because he genuinely wants it

Are you sure your mother is on your side?

You were all for keeping this baby and a conversation with your mother and you are back doing what she wants.

Of course he has got someone else. Who else is going to look after his kids when they go round.

He isn’t exactly dad of the year and I doubt any gf would stick around looking after 2 children and a baby for long. Especially if he wants joint custody and you insist on your child going to his on the days his other children don’t.

Dont think about him with anyone else. That's not relevant now and not controllable. You have so much to look forward too. X

@firegirl35 so glad you are keeping your baby. This will be the making of you, good luck x

OP, you are overthinking things and catastrophising. You need to stop and take a breath. And as much as it is a cliche, just take one day at a time and not obsess about the future too much.

You don't know how he will be when the baby is here. Chances are, being as he doesn't want responsibility or hard work, that he will lose interest. You may well be shot of him in the future.

You also haven't factored in any Universal Credit into your childcare/income calculations. And you don't know what hours you'll work in the future, or what salary (you may change roles or jobs at some point). You've got a very generous mat pay package from the fire service, so money worries can be shelved for a year as you may be able to save on full pay for 7 months with no work related expenses.

I can see you are playing out a hundred future scenarios in your head and worrying and stressing about them all. Your only job right now is to rest and take care of yourself (and therefore your baby), both physically and mentally. You can't live on stress induced adrenaline so you need to do some relaxation exercises, eat chocolate, take a long bath or whatever makes you feel calm and relaxed. And start to enjoy your freedom and begin the exciting future you have ahead. One day at a time.

things have been great until a few weeks ago when his son started having sickness and anxiety at meal times

the ex has suggested she has them more. He’s dead against this

he wants to see them more, and he also doesn’t trust that if he gave her maintenance it would actually be spent on the kids

he’s quite lazy, dirty etc round the house, doesn’t pay me compliments, and he’s only an ok dad, he does provide and cook for them and they don’t go without much, but he’d be happy to have DS in a dirty jumper, and sometimes I think he interacts with the dog more than he does me/the kids!

I’m not sure if he’s controlling her with this

I have no relationship with her whatsoever, she seems a bit threatened by the bond I have with her children

I’m jokingly not “allowed” to do the cooking as I’m a bad cook

but I think he just likes control of the kitchen

I was a vegetarian when he met me and now I’m a meat eater for ease. I know. He can be tight with money

He’s very loyal and extremely honest

He is? (I disagree) That's good because they seem to be his only redeeming features... the quotes I pulled above are in your first few posts, which are littered with red flags.

The pp was right, you will be stuck with him for life if you have this baby, which is of course, your choice and no one can make that choice for you, either way. But I suggest that you do not pursue this relationship too much longer, to be honest!

You do not know him, you are 5 months in, moved in with him only because it was your only option. He isn't the catch you think he is.

You probably can cook (I was told that for 32yrs too), you gave up being a vegetarian because it was easier. He doesn't value your values, or anything about you.

Everything about him says he is avoiding his responsibilities as a father, right down to becoming self employed (because salary takes a hit, so less (in his case none) money for his kids!

Urgh. Have the baby, don't have the baby... but leave him.

@Siw2020 - 35 is not classed as a geriatric pregnancy these days. I had my second in lockdown at the age of 38 (short of my 39 birthday) and even at 40, the midwife said it's not classed as that now.

OP, in your heart I think you have already made your mind up. Regardless of what you choose, it doesnt sound like you are fully happy in the relationship. I was only with my hubby for 7 months before I fell pregnant (he was told he could not have kids and showed me the docs proof, so was a shock when I did). No time is right or wrong, you make what you can of situations. Good luck with whatever you choose, and in the current climate all scans and appointments will be on your own, so you can talk to professions if you need to easily enough.

You've come out of the relationship with your previous ex, who was let's say a level 8 bastard and now landed in the lap of this bloke who is probably a level 5. It feels better because it is. But the only acceptable level of abuse and control is none. Relationships like that do exist, and you do deserve one.

It's OK and healthy to recognise that it will take some time to cool off from this relationship. Feelings don't just switch off overnight (wouldn't that be useful??) instead when you feel yourself wavering, try to come back to a list of all the worst things. Not because it was like that every day, or because that's an overview of the relationship, but because the very worst of somebody should still be something that you can live with, the very worst things should be something that's a bit annoying, or inconvenient. They should not be things that hurt you to your very core or make you feel less as a person. A partner should build you up and support you. It's incompatible when they do the opposite.

Do yourself a favour and walk away from him. Find somewhere to live whilst you build your house. You will be happier on your own x

Sounds like your Mum has switched back into form and is railroading you again. Even if everything that she is saying is true, it’s not healthy if she’s saying it to make you change your mind and abort the baby. Narcissists are relentless. They do not understand the word ‘No’.
When are your parents leaving?

He doesn't want another child. You are 35, you clearly want a child, and now you are pregnant. He probably is assuming this was not an accident, and you are forcing his hand.

He doesn't get to make a choice about terminating - his choice was to use condoms, and he chose to take your word for it instead. If I were you and I really wanted a child I would go ahead with the pregnancy but be prepared to do so without his support. Lots of women do so, and you can totally manage it.

@BertieBotts

You've come out of the relationship with your previous ex, who was let's say a level 8 bastard and now landed in the lap of this bloke who is probably a level 5. It feels better because it is. But the only acceptable level of abuse and control is none. Relationships like that do exist, and you do deserve one.

It's OK and healthy to recognise that it will take some time to cool off from this relationship. Feelings don't just switch off overnight (wouldn't that be useful??) instead when you feel yourself wavering, try to come back to a list of all the worst things. Not because it was like that every day, or because that's an overview of the relationship, but because the very worst of somebody should still be something that you can live with, the very worst things should be something that's a bit annoying, or inconvenient. They should not be things that hurt you to your very core or make you feel less as a person. A partner should build you up and support you. It's incompatible when they do the opposite.

What a fantastic post.

Just read the whole thread and I think you just sound lovely!

You so don’t deserve to be in this position but for what it’s worth, you sound like you’ll make a bloody good mum.

You seemed so happy in your posts when you had finally decided to keep your baby. I know it’s hard to imagine now but when lo is here you won’t regret it for a moment, the sheer intensity of love for your child is indescribable. It’s something you only know when they are here.

My first child’s father was horrific, horrific! It was a struggle but not for one second did I regret my child. 13 years on, we are now friends and he is a good dad.

You still have to cope with the raw emotion of what is going on with your relationship, I think you need to separate the two. Even if he is the worst human in the world, you will still greave the end of a relationship because you have to mourn the ‘what could have been’.

Also, please don’t worry about you’re child resenting you, that just will not happen. They will know only that they are loved and happy.
You’re parents will love this baby when he or she arrives and dare I say so will the other grandparents.

I wish you all the luck in the world, you sound incredible.

@Firegirl35 I'm so sorry about the situation you're in. It is so tough. It sounds like you've rationalised every possible option and know what the positives and negatives of each option is. At the end of the day, the decision to keep /not keep the baby is yours and only yours. However, as almost everyone here said, I hope you don't stay with him (and it sounds like you're not).

I've not read every single post and not sure if this has been discussed already or not. However, I just wanted to let you know that if you decide to terminate the baby but worried that it'll be too late to have a child after 35, you can freeze your eggs (you can do it soon after you have one normal period). I'm not encouraging or promoting termination but also want to let you know that you can be a parent anytime if you freeze your eggs. So don't let your age be the deciding factor on whether you keep the baby or not. The only reason women struggle to have babies at a later age is because of egg quality and not because the body/uterus can't grow a baby. I just got pregnant for the first time at 37 with the help of IVF and the process left me with 3 other embryos in the freezer for future. If you want to consider this and want specific advice, I'm happy to help. I just don't want you to think it's the end if you don't go ahead with this pregnancy xx

Oh my goodness you have all had me in tears here, Thankyou so much for those compliments @Lucy830 I cried! And @BendyLikeBeckham you are so right that was a fabulous post by @BertieBotts it’s just opened my eyes to how a relationship truly should be about their worst side etc and I never want to settle for that again. I spotted the first red flag with the love bombing but ignored it, next time I’m trusting my gut straight away and not giving anyone second chances. My LO’s safety would depend on it. I’m realising the challenges I will face as a single mum to a child with a narc father, I’m combatting his influence and effects on their psychological well-being and development. He has huge potential to adversely affect their attachment styles and self esteem, which will knock on to performance in school, behaviour, and future relationships. I feel like I’ll be up against it and constantly countering him. I don’t want any gfs of his to have any involvement but unfortunately I can’t stop that when LO would be with him, and though we’ve not discussed details of involvement yet/levels of contact it’s looking like he will be there in some way shape or form. Even if he only had them one day a week for one of my 24hr shifts at work, that would save me £220 in childcare per month. I don’t want to rely on him for money (haven’t factored in getting any maintenance from him, only what I would save if he had the LO.) I’m aware he may drop contact and that’s why I can’t rely on him. I’m meeting him in the morning and not sure how it will go and whether to ask what level of contact he thinks he might want, or say we can have that discussion at another date