is anyone having the odd glass of wine?

[daisystone]

When I found out I was pregnant I stopped drinking immediately and then the morning sickness kicked in and the thought of alcohol sent me running to the loo.

However, now I am over that (thank the Lord!!) and although I am still not drinking per se, I have had a glass of Champagne, two coronas and a glass of red wine spaced over about 11 weeks.

The NHS say that one or two units once or twice a week is acceptable but obviously a lot of people think it is a big no no anyway.

I am interested in what other people are doing and if they feel guilty if they have the odd glass of wine.

Feta is fine. Honestly, people get so bloody worried about everything.

When I was dying of morning sickness (it felt like it), I wanted a prawn sandwich. Nothing else would do. Now, cold prawns in supermarket sandwiches are apparently a no no, but quite frankly at that stage I didn't give a damn, and the likelihood or something 'bad' happening was minimal.

We are intelligent women, just use your common sense. What on earth did people do before all of these government guidelines and baby books?? They managed to eat and drink and raise children just fine.

Not saying I don't need any help or guidance myself, but don't make other women feel bad just because they are eating or drinking certain things. I am sure everyone here is being sensible. If certain people want to be all precious and wrap themselves up in cotton wool then they can do that, but come on, a bit of soft cheese or a glass of wine or some prawns ain't going to kill you or the baby. Plus the likelihood of getting food poisoning from indulging once or twice is minimal.

For me it was more the salt levels in the feta and the olives combined (about a weeks worth in one go), besides the high content I am pissing like a race horse as it is and that would only make it worse.

The salt in the feta?!

How do those mediterraneans survive with such an unhealthy diet!

@hoshiji

Thanks for the links to the alcohol/breastmilk stuff esp the calculator. I had been looking in pubmed abstracts which weren't that useful... (and obviously google didn't occur to my tired/entirely fried brain).

p.s. @haoshiji sorry - typed your name wrong

"How do those mediterraneans survive with such an unhealthy diet! "

I know can you imagine!

"Not sure degrees are a bench mark for drinking in pregnancy = fine. Lots of people with social skills issues, autism and disabilities have degrees?"

Just re-read that and it sounds a bit wonkey.

Should have been -

Not sure degrees are a bench mark for drinking in pregnancy = fine. I would imagine lots of people with social skills issues, autism, disabilities etc. (that could possibly have drink / smoke related foundations) have degrees?

god I am not even starting on the cheese and cured meat I have consumed

I thought I was normal!!!!! I thought everyone thought the guidlines were nanny state OTT-ness!!!!

off to a wine and cheese part, see ya

I was at a wedding a few weeks ago and there was an evening buffet. I helped myself to some bread and ham and my brother in law jumped on me and said 'is that ham cured? I think it is! Should you be having that??'

I was like, "if I am OK with it, you bloody well should be as it is my body and my baby"

Oh.My.God.

squeezydiva

In answer to your question my mum drank daily when pg with me and my brother.She's from a posh, hard-drinking Scottish culture where it is seen as weird and rude not to drink - wine and gin were her tipples.

She was v impatient during my pregnancies when I limited alcohol (though didn't give up completely) and thought it was a ridiculous fad.

I don't think she ever got wasted but I don't think she limited her intake either. She didnt' smoke

Neither my brother, nor I have any learning difficulties in fact we both have Oxbridge degrees and very successful careers. We're definitely not autistic/adhd either and are both very outgoing people. Possibly her drinking affected us on some level but how it's hard to see

My point is it doesn't matter whether they're anecdotes or people one knows, it's such a small sample and one where you can't control for a whole range of variables, that it doesn't mean much - but because most of the examples you gave haoshiji were negative, it gives a skewed message.

And my point about degrees wasn't meant to say "a degree = you're fine". My point was if alcohol in pregnancy --> learning difficulties, behavioural problems and memory issues (which are associated with FAS), then it that doesn't really chime with the fact that some people's mothers drank through their pregnancies yet they still managed to get a degree (ie my example). I was trying to say that this suggests that a mother drinking alcohol doesn't seem to necessarily produce learning difficulties et all because these are the sort of thing that affects many people's capacity to achieve academically.

That doesn't mean people with learning difficulties can't get degrees at all (we admit people with dyslexia, dyspraxia, all sorts of difficulties at my university), but it is harder to get through the degree with them and I would guess that fewer graduates have learning difficulties than the general population.

Anyway - I don't want to argue with you, I just wanted to make my point clear.

My big point is just that the research evidence largely shows that small amounts of alcohol aren't correlated with problems, and even large amounts are only partially correlated - it's not certain that if you drink X amount of booze, you'll get Y level of problems appearing in your child.

"My big point is just that the research evidence largely shows that small amounts of alcohol aren't correlated with problems, and even large amounts are only partially correlated"

I don't think this is accurate.
The best evidence we have, and it's not perfect by any means, indicates that even smal amounts of alcohol increases the risk of certain bad outcomes, if only by a small amount.
Large amounts are very risky, mainly in regards to FAS & FASD but other disorders as well.

"it's not certain that if you drink X amount of booze, you'll get Y level of problems appearing in your child."

I'm not sure you understand risk that well.
Not many enviromental exposures, even ones as dangerous as smoking with regards to lung cancer or heart disease, have that effect.

a small glass of red seemed the sensible way to deal with early labour with dc3. just don't get too complacent - arrived at birth centre a full 13 minutes before he was born - oops!

ffs - they'll quite cheerfully give you pethidine, morphine and f*ck knows what else in labour, personally I'd hedge my bets with a glass of vino.

Like others have said didn't fancy it in the slightest for the first few weeks but the odd glass a couple or three times a week will do no harm assuming you're not high on other risk factors like smoking or obesity I reckon.

"but because most of the examples you gave haoshiji were negative, it gives a skewed message."

That suggests that people are not able to make their own minds up and would take my examples as matter of fact?

They were exactly that; examples, not suggested as proof positive. I was giving real life examples of how I came to determine my own point of view on the subject.

By the same token some people have said my mother drank a gin every night and I am fine. So could we say they are unduly putting a positive skew on the discussion?

"That doesn't mean people with learning difficulties can't get degrees at all (we admit people with dyslexia, dyspraxia, all sorts of difficulties at my university), but it is harder to get through the degree with them and I would guess that fewer graduates have learning difficulties than the general population."

Would that not be a good reason to consider and discuss the subject of influence drinking / smoking etc. may have on a child's development?

"Anyway - I don't want to argue with you"

I would say it's more of a discussion than an argument (definitions aside). It is good to talk... well type.

In the end it a difference of opinion based on our own life experiences; however the discussion of said experiences and opinions has formed a reasonable debate in this post.

I am pleasantly surprised at the civility of the thread given the subject matter although I guess this post in AIBU may not have turned out the same.

DBennett: "I'm not sure you understand risk that well."

I think that's a bit unfair and I think my point demonstrates quite the opposite. It's pretty hard to find any event that has a single, entirely predictable causative outcome. And of course those exposures you list don't necessarily lead to bad outcomes - but they are, to varying degrees, correlated with them. We've all read stories of the person who smoked and lived to 100, but the general trend from the data is that smoking is correlated to higher rates of lung cancer. So if you smoke, you risk getting lung cancer. My point was, and it stands for lung cancer too, is that it's not true that if you smoke, you will get lung cancer - it's just a risk.

My point was the same in relation to alcohol consumption, namely to say that for people who are worried that they've had alcohol during pregnancy, as at least one poster was, that they shouldn't worry too much because the outcome isn't at all certain, precisely because we can't say with certainty that if you drink some alcohol your child will necessarily have FAS or learning problems or whatever. All we can say is it's more likely that they will have some negative effects of some kind, but we can't even predict the level to which they'll suffer them. Ie all we can say is that there is a risk of their child having problems which seems to increase with the amount of alcohol consumed (as, I think, does the possible severity of the problems). The more you drink, the greater the risk - so if you drank a little, you've run a small risk and it's more likely than not it will no discernible impact based on the bulk of current research.

I'm not sure how that shows I don't understand risk, but I'm open to having it explained to me .

Haoshiji - yep, that's exactly why I think women should try to avoid alcohol during pregnancy - drink none or drink a little - because the research shows it does mean you run the risk of your child having learning problems if you do. So we agree .

My point about real life examples sending a skewed message is that to form a well-supported view, one needs a large amount of data - more than anyone can get just from personal experience. That's my view, but I think you're right - we do all look around us for examples and this validly shapes our views too.

good to talk/type to you too.

"My point about real life examples sending a skewed message is that to form a well-supported view, one needs a large amount of data"

Understood but at the end of the day this is just a forum, not a research company website or summat' so people's own views are what you are going to get rather than tested facts and findings.

Did anyone find the hidden images in my last post btw? Six to find. Was bored.

@BongoWinslow

OK, I think I'm clearer on what how think about risk.
But I still think it differs from how I think about risk.

I would agree with you that anyone who drank while pregnant (or indeed smoked when pregnant or is a former non-pregnent smoker for that matter) shouldn't worry about the conditions that they have increased the risk of.

But for the simple reson that the exposure has happened, it can't be undone.

Whether or not you can, in some up-to-now uninvented away, 100% confirm or deny the cause of any multifactorial event should be irrelevent to someone who is currently dealing with that exposure.

But it seems the an appeal to wilful ignorance to use a lack of certainty to avoid discussing why something has happened with a view to stop it happening again.

And I don't know that it's intellectually honest to advise people to cling onto the idea that this might have happened to you anyway even if you had made different choices.
1 in 14 current smokers with lung cancer would have got lung cancer even if they had never smoked.
But 13 in 14 wouldn't.
Not everyone can be in the former group.

I also remain concerned that you may still think that a small amount of alchol during pregnancy is associated with the same risks as no alcohol.
Sentences like these:
"The more you drink, the greater the risk - so if you drank a little, you've run a small risk and it's more likely than not it will no discernible impact based on the bulk of current research."

I'm sure you don't mean that learning disabilities or childhood cancer has no discernable benefit to the child or family who are facing them.
But the evidence doesn't suggest that low levels of drinking with have no discernable impact.
You might be lucky but you're still increasing the chance of getting unlucky.

And I'm sure you don't think that people (and pregnant women in particular) can't understand that mechanism.
So I can't understand the reluctance of some (and not aiming especially at yourself for this) to the situation being explained in this manner.

Yes absolutely

I'm 30 weeks sometimes I'll have 1-2 wines but other times go without for weeks and weeks it's rare I'll drink every week no guilt