is anyone having the odd glass of wine?

[daisystone]

When I found out I was pregnant I stopped drinking immediately and then the morning sickness kicked in and the thought of alcohol sent me running to the loo.

However, now I am over that (thank the Lord!!) and although I am still not drinking per se, I have had a glass of Champagne, two coronas and a glass of red wine spaced over about 11 weeks.

The NHS say that one or two units once or twice a week is acceptable but obviously a lot of people think it is a big no no anyway.

I am interested in what other people are doing and if they feel guilty if they have the odd glass of wine.

With both pregnancies I had the odd glass here and there - especially over Christmas and New Year - wine with Christmas dinner, Champagne on NYE.

With my 2nd I also went to a couple of weddings, the first when I was 16 wks and I had a glass or 2 of bubbly and then at 20 wks when I had some of the best wine I've ever drank at the wedding breakfast - it was frustrating though because I had 2 glasses and really wanted more!

If I was to have another pregnancy, then yes, I'd take another drink here and there - but like you say in your original post, there are times during pregnancy where even the thought of a glass of wine has you retching!

I also had a bottle of champagne in the hospital bag- and the first thing I packed. (Although one glass made me dizzy and DH had to take the rest home. He carefully corked it and we had it 3 days later when i was out. )

I hate the 'publicly owned foetus/ publicly owned baby' brigade. Someone told me to be sanguine, and think of it as a 'it takes a village to raise a child' approach, but actually I want people to just fuck off, stop treating me like an idiot and let me get on with it.

The article that Bongo linked to was fascinating, because the DR in question raises the whole issue of society thinking you are a Bad Bad Woman and a Bad Bad Mummy who should have your children taken off you UNLESS you sacrifice yourself to the altar of motherhood. When I first got pg, I had a bit of a crisis of identity, because I was thinking about all of that.

I'm pg with number three. Number one I had a glass of wine after first trimester a couple of times a week. Number two I had a small glass most nights. This time I have had a couple but it's going so quickly I can't get excited about it tbh, I am having coca-cola cravings which is probably just as bad as wine lol.

I have had a glass wine in public in previous pregnancies it wouldn't occur to me not to.

DH doesn't mind me drinking wine but doesn't like me drinking beer when pg??? Although I do have the odd v weak shandy. Men!

The change of guidelines was, as I understand it, partly prompted by the problem there is in the UK with babies born with foetal alcohol syndrome. Most caucasian babies put up for adoption in the UK will have this, which I found hugely shocking when DH and I were looking into adoption. If you're white (usually can't adopt outside of your ethnic group) and looking to adopt a healthy baby from within the UK, there's a wait of years and it may not be possible at all.

Not enough women are aware of what a unit of alcohol is, or that more than 4 units constitutes binge drinking no matter how drunk you feel. People with higher alcohol tolerance could easily drink 4 units (it's only 2 large glasses of wine!) without thinking it's a lot, so a lot of people do still go into the grey area of increased risk but not definite damage.

mamjo, i would be very surprised if a spanish doctor had told me that drinking while pregnant is ok, the guideline in spain is not a drop, at all, ever, even if you only suspect you might be pregnant, and over there they even make adverts to tell you it will damage the baby, you're in for a big told off if you tell a spanish hcp that you are drinking while pregnant, they don't like you to drink after the birth even if you are not breast feeding, shouldn't drink while caring for a small child, and people will make a comment if you drink in public while sponsoring a bump.

Andbabymadefour you took the words right out of my mouth!

Since the introduction of the zero alcohol guidelines the rate of babies born with fetal alcohol syndrome hasn't altered at all, suggesting that the women who really do need to stop drinking will continue regardless of official guidelines. In the meantime, the rest of us get snidey looks from people if we so much as raise a glass to our lips. Doesn't make sense.

Just at a common sense level, if many of our mothers didn't abstain from drinking during pregnancy (mine certainly didn't and she also smoked heavily) why are there not vast numbers of 30, 40, 50 and 60 year olds with FAS? It would stand to reason that there were, yet this doesn't seem to be the case.

This is a summary of a recent large study of drinking in pregnancy (I doubt a link the study itself would work): news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7699579.stm

Anyway - I think it's up to women to weigh the 'risk' themselves, just like they do when they fly or have an x-ray or cross the road. It's the fudging of the information on the basis that we can't assess it properly that I object to.

And I call it a 'risk' in inverted commas because in any other situation we wouldn't regard lack of proof of absolute safety as a 'risk' and then not do the 'risky' thing. If we did, we'd never leave our houses for fear of all the risks that surround us.

first pregnancy, did not touch a drop, even onmy 30th birthday and felt rather smug about it all

second pregnancy, had a total of about 4 glasses of wine and 2 glasses of champagne. I craved alcohol and found it really hard to not drink red wine

I didnt feel too guilty except once in a restaurant when I felt that people must think I was irresponsible.

Interesting study, although I wonder if what it really indicates is that those mothers who were relaxed enough about rules to have a couple of drinks a week were also a bit more relaxed as mothers - so having a couple of drinks is sympotmatic of the type of person you are, rather than 'making' you relaxed, IYSWIM.
I'm pg with #2 and having '1 or 2 units once or twice a week' - so usually a small glass of wine and a beer spaced through the week - but my body says no after that anyway. I think there is a small risk but I have decided it is one I'm prepared to take. In fact, if I could stick to this level of drinking forever I'd be really happy!

So delighted to hear so many sensible comments on here - common sense prevails - marvellous!

I'm currently at 23wks (first timer) and agree that if you feel like it a couple of glasses a week isn't going to do any harm. Pre-pregnancy I was a fairly 'solid' drinker (technically bingeing by governments standards at a weekend); with cider being my main weakness. I can highly recommend Sainsbury's low alcohol cider and I've been having one of these a fornight/week in the hot weather. It's only 0.5 unit per bottle and so have been known to have a couple on a hot Saturday in a park. DH is completely supportive and ensures the fridge always has at least one in 'just in case'

I agree completely that we shouldn'd care about the looks you get from other people when you're out. It is easier said than done though...

Loving the suggestion of champers to the hospital - I shall make that the first thing in the bag!

I am 36 weeks and I have probably had no more than 6 drinks in my whole pregnancy mainly down to the fact that even the smell of makes me feel sick. I am a vodka lover but can't face it and in this heat I would usually be drinking Pimms like it was going out of fashion but at a family BBQ yesterday even a tiny sip of my SILs Pimms sent me running to the loo.

Went off alcohol for most of my pregnancies but had the odd sip of wine in late pregnancy both times. With my last one dh gently reminded me that I was in fact still pregnant (at about 38 weeks) when I got the taste for it back and after my small glass of wine eyed his glass very jealously . So much for the problem of stopping at one!
(Oh, and I made up for 9 months of not drinking in a big way once I stopped breastfeeding! )

I can't stomach booze in first trimester - even an open bottle of wine 3 metres away made me want to gag -
once I am feeling better I would normally have had a glass or two of wine a week. At xmas with DC3 I actually had 3 glasses of wine (!!) over the afternoon on the basis that it was an amazing bottle of fine wine - and she was overdue at this point, so fully cooked....that was an exception, but I too hate the sanctimonious looks of people if you have one alcoholic drink whilst pg.

I was once out at a restuarant and the waiter was going round with the wine, and looked at my bump and said "oh, none for you then" and passed me by. He was pulled up VERY sharply and told to return with the bottle, I can tell you.

If you look at the evidence behind the zero-alcohol recommendation, there isn't much that supports it. Basically it was introduced in the hope that it would send a clearer message to alcoholic mothers and persuade them out of their denial. The recommendation has apparently had no impact on that front, but it has served very well at making pregnant women feel guilty for drinking the odd glass of wine.

Ultimately I've not had much in the way of alcohol throughout my pregnancy, save the odd week where I've really craved a glass of wine in the evening. Nausea put me off any alcohol in the first trimester, and as I approach the end of my pregnancy heartburn serves as another reason not to. But then when the weather is lovely, you're at a wedding or your DH has decided to open a bottle...I'm inclined to partake.

My advice to anyone who feels guilty is DON'T! Enjoy a drink if you fancy it, make sure it's something you love to drink (personally, it's Oyster Bay Chardonnay, very cold), do it in public and private (the more we hide away the more we will turn into pariahs) and, like everything else, listen to your instincts...they will tell you when you've had enough!

I don't agree with people saying the zero tolerance guidance infantilises women. I think you are being a bit touchy there, personally.

The fact is no-one will ever be able to tell you exactly how many units is safe without an incredibly unethical survey involving lots of women drinking different amounts of units and seeing what babies are affected!!

Plus of course, no doubt the effect of alcohol would vary by person and throughout the pregnancy - a couple of units at 12 weeks must be worse than at 40 weeks when the baby is completely developed, so there is just no way there will be a categorical answer to how much you can safely drink.

Personally, as I said earlier I'm happy to have 1-2 units from time to time as it seems to be what an awful lot of people do with no ill effects.

Breastfeeding is another matter entirely!! I certainly will not be counting units when I'm breastfeeding. You're limited by the fact you might have to get up through the night, but apart from that don't worry about it. Really makes me cringe when people think they still have to stick to the 1-2 units advice then or stick to the drink drive limits! You do not get boozy milk!

"Basically it was introduced in the hope that it would send a clearer message to alcoholic mothers and persuade them out of their denial."

Again, I don't think the evidence supports this outlook.

There is a lot of evidence that drinking, for example, 5-8 units a week greatly increases the risk of a variety of medical conditions.

There is no evidence, and nor plausable mechanism for alcohol to be beneficial for a foetus.

There is a lot of evidence, I just did a v.brief review of data from 2010 as an example, that a little bit of alcohol, 1-2 units a week slightly increases the risk of a variety of medical conditions.

But the increased risk for an individual is not great.
But for a population it is a concern.

As a result it could be entirely sensible for a goverenment to advise a certain behaviour and yet for every individual to choose to ignore it.

The eating of processed meat, such as bacon, is a good example.

Eating Bacon 3 or more times a week seems to increase your risk of dying from bowel cancer by 20%.
This means if you have a 100 people who eat bacon 4x a week then 6 will die of bowel cancer.
100 people who don't eat bacon will onyl have 5 people die of bowel cancer.

That extra chance for an individual might not seem important.
But when the numbers are 60million then that's an extra 600,000 colon cancer cases that the government wants to avoid.

So if 1-3 units a week leads to:

9% increased risk of placenta conditions

24% increased risk of childhood leukaemia

10% increased risk of cognitive and socioemotional development at age 3

for example, this might not be enough for a mother to want to change her behaviour.
But can you see why a government might be interested in promoting it to all mothers.

I'm not drinking at all in this pg - had an MMC at 12 weeks in Jan, so not doing anything that could make me feel anymore anxious than I do already.

i had the odd drink 2nd and 3rd trimester, couldn't stomach it at all 1st trimester. I find it interesting that in the 1st 12 weeks, when the baby is most vulnerable to any possible damage, is when most people find they really don't want to drink anyway ?inbuilt protective mechanism i guess.
Am breastfeeding now and definately having a beer at the end of the day! There is big difference between exposing your baby directly to your blood alcohol level when you're pregnant (ie your blood alcohol=baby's blood alcohol), and having baby drink milk which has your blood alcohol level in it (ie baby drinks milk that 0.04% alcohol in it -for average sized woman after 1 pint of beer- that is not very strong even for baby!)

I didn't at all during the 1st trimester of my 1st pregnancy but went on holiday to france during my 7th month and had several glasses of red wine over the course of that week.

This pregnancy I havn't had any alcohol apart from alcohol free beer but when I reach the 3rd trimester I might relax a little and enjoy the odd glass here and there.

DBennett- yes and no

I can see why a government might feel under pressure to, but I think they should resist, given the massive flaws in behaviour related research (which researchers themselves willingly admit to)but which tend to get glossed over when some tabloid Science Editor trots them out for general consumption

ie

• no control group
• Incentive/ propensity to lie about personal behaviour given nature of research/ fear of disapproval- interestingly someone actually did a study about this and they were shocked at the extent to which people lied, sometimes almost subconsciously.
• Retrospective data gathering- relies on memory of participants not objective observation.
• Self selecting study group- i.e. it's much better to start with a group and see who develops Leukemia than start with the Leukemia patients and work backwards BUT you need a massive sample for this which is why it's tempting to cut corners
• Clustering of certain behaviours/ trends- in your placental disorder study, the researchers themselves admit that drinkers are also more likely to be smokers and over 35 than the non-drinkers, two significant factors in placental issues. These factors have not been isolated.

So yes, I dont think you can be flippant about risk but I think actually, the fact that the College of Obs and Gynaes have not come out on this one is quite relevant.

For some reason wine tasted "off" during pregnancy but I had one pub measure of gin with a large tonic every Friday night to mark the divide between work & weekend.

I took the view that my baby would be far better off with a de-stressed mum.

I got a couple of raised eyebrows in the village pub but that stopped when they realised I only ever had one and they only saw me on a Friday.

I'm 36 weeks pregnant with my second and I haven't had a drop since I got the blue line. I did the same with the first baby. I just feel - why risk it? I know I am the type of person who would try and blame myself for anything if there was a problem with the baby. In fact, I lost a baby last year at 16 weeks and I am still blaming myself and trying to find something that I did or did not do to pinpoint it on. So for my own future sanity, I prefer to remove all doubt and abstain completely.

I don't judge anyone else who does drink as we are all entitled to parent anyway we choose (and I believe that parenting starts in the wo
mb!) but how do you really know how much is safe, and maybe those who have drunk in previous pregnancies and had no problems have just been incredibly lucky?? Who knows next time??

I had a glass of sherry a week throughout my pregnancy. (And the odd prawn curry). By the time my son was in Year 2 he was being assessed for all sorts of sensory processing issues.

I doubt that the two are related but as one can never be sure I really wish I hadn't had those drinks. At least I would feel less guilt now.

I urge you all to listen to the Womens Hour link bettybutterknife included on her post a couple of pages ago, it's really interesting.

I live in Spain and it's currently 30 degrees on average every day. The thing I want more than anything is a cold beer, but I'm limiting myself to one or two per week. I really don't feel there's any harm in it.

My Mum drank all the way through all three of her pregnancies, and me and my brothers turned out absolutely fine. In fact, she said she only reason she suspected she was pregnant with me was because she went off her evening g&t - her glass of red wine wasn't affected though!