is anyone having the odd glass of wine?

[daisystone]

When I found out I was pregnant I stopped drinking immediately and then the morning sickness kicked in and the thought of alcohol sent me running to the loo.

However, now I am over that (thank the Lord!!) and although I am still not drinking per se, I have had a glass of Champagne, two coronas and a glass of red wine spaced over about 11 weeks.

The NHS say that one or two units once or twice a week is acceptable but obviously a lot of people think it is a big no no anyway.

I am interested in what other people are doing and if they feel guilty if they have the odd glass of wine.

I agree with EmmaKateWH - I am so surprised to hear so many people drinking whilst pregnant. My children are 21 and 14 and I don't remember anyone in my ante natal class or NCT class with either child drinking whilst pregnant. Has society changed so much in these years that now we all need a beer or wine at the end of the day? I don't even remember pregnant mothers complaining. In fact looking at it I drink more now than I did around those years at home. I only used to drink if we went out (when not pregnant or breast feeding) it was an occasional thing rather than every week. When did this all change?

Many years ago I think. All I hear is that 'back in the day' drinking when pregnant wasn't frowned upon. My mother is a nurse and was a health visitor, so is very well trained and medically 'educated', and she would have the odd drink when pregnant with us. She was surprised to hear how frowned upon it is now. I would certainly not drink every day, every week or on any form of regular basis. But I am sensible and rational and know that the 3 or 4 units I have had in total over the last 38 wks are not going to do me or anyone else any harm. (For what it's worth I doubt the units even added up to that: an inch of chanpagne, and inch of white wine, a very weak Pimms and a half of weak cider with ice. Certainly nothing to kick myself over.

"It would appear that there is some increased risk of childhood cancers, especially leukemia & brain/nerve tumors. "

Actually that study concluded "Inconsistencies in the results and the low risks reported do not suggest an association between childhood cancer and parental consumption of alcohol."

"This may be as high as 24%"

Where did you get that figure and the question was alchol yes or no - no amount specified.

"There is someevidence linking linking this amount of alcohol consumption to increased levels of symptoms of ADHD (inattention, impulsivity), increased externalizing behavior, decreased general cognitive functioning, and deficits in learning and memory tasks."

This amount = 1-3 units, the studies were on low to moderate amounts of consumption but it doesn't define what these are unless you have access to the whole paper which I do not.

There are a lot of mays, somes and very little actual evidence in your post.

canella I think its because there's much more evidence about bad effects of smoking on unborn children and we understand better why this is. But I don't have any real info on it, just my impression/memory of reading something ages ago

jjkm - a hangover from the odd glass of wine? You really have never drunk have you??!!

With my twins and my son I had the odd beer and glass of wine. The morning sickness with my twin girls made drinking impossible, but not so much with my son. I probably had about a unit a week, (half a lager). I think most people know their limits.

I'm not normally a big drinker anyway (2 or 3 beers a week), but with both my DC, I treated myself every Saturday to a half lager shandy. I looked forward to that so much.
I didn't CRAVE it, but somehow the fact that I was denying myself alcohol at all other times, made that shandy taste bloody wonderful.

I wouldn't have felt comfortable drinking any more than that.

I'm not pregnant now, but with my 2 pregnancies, I avoided it till 20 weeks (as felt so crap) but then after that I had 1 - 2 glasses of red wine a week...tended to only have it with food and really enjoyed it.

I have had a drink or two in both my pregnancies - much less this time around, but I think that is because during/after my first pregnancy I cut down so much that I became a real lightweight, so have been drinking a lot less anyway. Funny thing is that first time around DH was totally chilled about it, but this time he monitors my intake like a hawk and makes little comments - which really annoys me and actually makes me want to get another drink just to wind him up!

I agree with some of the other posters, it is usually men that comment about it when I am out - other women are generally very understanding - whether they have kids or not.

AS for alcohol free beer, most of it is just horrible, but can recommend Bitburger Drive if you can find it!

i'd imagine in your situation, knowing these 4 women, I'd likely have a different opinion

curious, how much did they consume?

(1) She was on the pill, was not trying to get PG, drank Friday and Saturday nights most weekends and smoked when drunk. Ended up pregnant with twins, born a 26 weeks, one baby sadly died, the other pulled through but has many complications.

(2) She drank two or three nights a week and odd weekends, fell pregnant ? carried on drinking and the odd cigarette. DS has ADHD. Fell pregnant again two years later and carried on the same, second DS has asthma / allergies and learning difficulties.

(3) She drank on a regular basis but not to excess, smoked about 10 cigarettes a week. Tried to get pregnant and did and carried on smoking and drinking. She elected to have CS (was asked what date, she said not Saturday as I am going shopping ? I kid you not!). Baby did not start to speak and just became aggressive, situation worsened, now in special school and on medication ? still not talking very well / much but has stopped biting people like a Jack Russell. After going to numerous specialists she said ?I do sometimes wonder if the smoking and drinking had anything to do with it ? there could be a link you know?

(4) She drank most weekends but when PG had only one beer a night, smoked on occasion. DD has had asthma since birth, bad skin conditions, allergy to dairy and some learning / concentration issues.

(5)* She didn?t drink whilst PG but did whilst BF, two children 4 and 8. She drinks on a regular basis at home (bottle of wine to self of half bottle of vodka or Baileys) two or so times a week but not always ? DH is often working away for a couple of weeks at a time. DS (8) has concentration issues, sleeps in her bed quite often, wets the bed, has been labelled a ?trouble maker? at school, watches TV a lot of the time (aloud to + games consoles). DD is very introverted, very fussy eater, aggressive, referred to as ?a little bitch or madam? by Mother. From what I can gather the drinking in the evening causes disruption to a degree that a routine is not an option, things happen as and when ? I am not judging or suggesting most of the above are not part and parcel of children growing up but it does make me think that the random post PG drinking is a factor in the children?s behaviour because of the way it effects home life.

Not suggesting any of that is conclusive proof (so many variables); but yet enough for me to draw my own conclusions.

how nicely we all are debating this !

I know can you imagine ? it?s like a radio 4 broadcast. Well sort of.

• Bit off topic I know but thought it was interesting in the debate.

@Librashavinganotherbiscuit

There are conflicting sentences in that article abstract.

The paper is little more towards an increased risk in the conclusions but it's a fair point.

Which is why I backed it up with the other studies (apologies if you missed the smaller hyperlinks.

So the studies here and here support this and the it's the former which has the most information in the absract and why I used it for the 24% line (easier for most people I figured).

The other amount you query is in the paper itself but I believe I can show a freely available letter (I hate paywalls) that speaks to that issue.
One of the authors of that study took issue with this study and responded here.

As to your final comment, I agree that there is a lot of "may" and "some" in my posts (although I think the evidence is there).

But that's the state of play with the epidemiological data right now.

And the uncertainty does support the government guidelines of no alcohol consumption.
It also supports an individuals right to ignore it.

And this is what I have tried to get across in this topic.

haoshiji but do you know how much they were drinking? roughly I mean. If they were all just on 1-2 units a week then that might be a bit worrying.
But if when you say drinking they were going for nights out and getting drunk then I will put on my judgey hat and think that if that's the level of parenting they do when pregnant it might be indicative of their behaviour once the baby is born!
Take example 3 for instance - I'm not even remotely qualified to comment but if she prioritises shopping over a c-section then how much attention is the poor kid getting? I think I'd be looking at the parenting skills before booze for behavioural issues like that. A beer a night sounds a lot to me when pg, that's probably 14 units a week.

Is there anyone on this forum who enjoyed moderate drinking throughout their pregnancy (1 /2 glasses of wine per week) and has subsequently had healthy, children with normal development?

By which I mean Children who have reached the age of 7 without having needed to be assessed for adhd, learning difficulties, amongst other conditions.

I'd love to hear from you if so. Please reply!

I would say 1 and 4 drank only at weekends but large amounts; 2 not thinking she would get pregnant due to the pill. 4 'cut down' when she became PG, I suspect it wasn't a beer every night but certainly quite regular.

2 and 3 I would say drank regularly; more than a couple of beers a week but not all the time. That seemed to be their lifestyle choice and the PG just slotted in to that.

5 drank often but stopped when PG, carried on where she left off when BF.

I would say all of them drank significantly more than a beer a week (if that is a bench mark for a safe average for arguments sake?). Although 5 not when PG.

I have no idea of week in week out amounts, just going on social interactions and their own discussions on consumption.

that's surprising, and quite scary TBH

I always thought FAS was the preserve of massive caners, this ladies dont seem to be alkies shall we say. just drinking at same pace as before

fuck, its too late now as am 33 weeks!

But DS1 is perfect, bar sleep issues . Squeezy so I had the odd glass of wine here and there and baby was just fine

now I am worried

I wouldn't worry too much; sure you will be fine - the worst case one was on a total bender every weekend and didn't know she was going to get pregnant, the others are likely due to smoking IMHO but it's quite possible the booze played a part, perhaps it's even the combination of the two? You are not smoking though?

There a probably a lot of other factors at play, none of the above have or had a particularly good or balanced diet either, quite lacking in regular exercise...

Wow this sounds like a right character assassination!

I would imagine the odd glass here and there is neither here nor there; although there must be an associated risk as with anything - . I have just chosen not to partake, possibly influenced by knowing the above and not being a big drinker anyway.

I work with children in a children's home who's mothers drank during pregnancy so have fetal alcohol syndrome. Some mothers to a lesser degree but they ended up not being able to cope with the child's behaviour hence living in a children's home. You can certainly see the difference in their behaviour and learning needs compared to peers who's mothers have not. The concentration span is minimal some have ADHD all have attachment disorders of some degree and most have learning difficulties mainly linked to short term memory loss and not being able to retain information. Maybe the odd glass wont do this but is it worth it?

You can eat feta it's not on the 'danger' list.

I know it's interesting to cite people we know, but really the only good evidence is large scale studies that do their best to control for variables other than alcohol consumption.

Otherwise we're effectively just doing our own little studies of 3 or 4 without all the info. For every "I know 3 people who drank and their babies all had problems", I can give you my family - four children, mother drank and smoked through all four and produced three who got university degrees (in fact, about 10 degrees between the 3 of them) and one, the last one when I suspect she drank the least, who has had problems. But that doesn't prove anything.

I'm not criticising people who are giving examples of people they know, anecdotes are useful, but it does also seem to be unnerving people who have been drinking.

From my reading of the evidence:
*No alcohol = no risk

*Tiny bit of alcohol = unclear, maybe tiny risk, maybe actually good (as per study I cited before)

*Lots of alcohol = big risk but not definite that FAS will result

And if you want an eg on the last one, I know someone who's mother was an alcoholic and died of liver failure - he's a medical professional with a degree...

So porcamiseria I wouldn't stress about it.

Agreed for every example of "I know someone that did blah" there is always "Well I know someone who didn't blah and they went on to be prime minister"

As I said before it's about making your own informed choices, knowing the five people I do with issues has likely swayed my own views on the subject.

"anecdotes are useful, but it does also seem to be unnerving people who have been drinking."

I'd say it's real life examples in my case rather than anecdotes from TV Quick. These are real people with real issues whom have smoked and drunk during and after pregnancy. Naturally there are many other factors involved such as age, fitness, wealth, health, family history etc. Surely it's better to discuss these examples than not if they are relevant to the topic under discussion?

Not sure degrees are a bench mark for drinking in pregnancy = fine. Lots of people with social skills issues, autism and disabilities have degrees?

PrivetDancer - I really fancied a bit of feta in a Greek salad I was going to make the other day but besides the unpasteurised feta the salt levels of the feta and the olives combined was off the fikin' hook.

OWMG I am turning into the food and drink police - argh.