is anyone having the odd glass of wine?

[daisystone]

When I found out I was pregnant I stopped drinking immediately and then the morning sickness kicked in and the thought of alcohol sent me running to the loo.

However, now I am over that (thank the Lord!!) and although I am still not drinking per se, I have had a glass of Champagne, two coronas and a glass of red wine spaced over about 11 weeks.

The NHS say that one or two units once or twice a week is acceptable but obviously a lot of people think it is a big no no anyway.

I am interested in what other people are doing and if they feel guilty if they have the odd glass of wine.

good point, but you cannot isolate if the mother drunk while pg, culture has a great influence, especially if you see your parents drunk as a child, it becomes an acceptable behaviour to you, whether if you see your parents having the occasional drink responsibly, you are so much likely to be a responsible drinker.

its all my mothers fault then

I KNEW IT

I grew up with a father that is a responsible drinker and a t-total mother, I used to go out and get hammered in my younger days. Granted not done it for a long long time, it was more peer pressure than family that made me drink heavily when I was younger.

I don't drink weekly and when I do have a drink it is usually half a can of bitter.

With DD I think I had one glass of champaign at christmas, throughout the whole pregnancy. It was personal choice for me as I had tried for over 4 yeas to get pregnant and I did everything by the book. This time I have been a bit more relaxed.

I will say I have never looked at a pregnant woman who is having a glass or wine or a beer etc and judged them for it, like I don't judge pregnant women if they choose to ear brie or other "banned pregnancy substances".

I have my own pregnancy to worry about, don't have time for other peoples pregnancies call me selfish!

here here nunnie. Personal choice - I'll drink to that.

When I was pregnant with dc2 I was shown this video and after watching it I could never drink while pregnant. It was originally shown on the timesonline but I can only find it on you tube

I dont know how scientifically proven it is but I would rather not take the risk.

ps. I have never judged a woman for doing anything they wanted to do during pregnancy, they are adults (usually) and they can bring their children up how they like, Each to their own.

Personally pate is my weakness!

That is quite disturbing; Steven Hawkins wife doing the voice over.

"its all my mothers fault then" Lol where there's blame there's a claim!

@lilmissmummy
I don't think too much weaight should be plaed on that video.
It's emotive to be sure but the data it's based on does not seem very valid or rigourous.

@porcamiseria
Although I'm not sure I disgree with your conclusion, I thoroughly disagree with your reason for arriving at it.

Did you examine these "1000s and 1000s of women with healthy babies"?
Did you compare them with a control group of women who didn't drink?
Did you look at the full range of health care otucomes, both pre/perinatal, childhood and adult?
Did you attempt to control for confounders between groups.

Of course, I'm being facetious.
I don't expect you (or anyone else) to do this before having an opinion.

But I do expect far more weight to be put on the results of data like this than those who have no data behind their opinion.

You seemed very quick to dismiss evidence that didn't fit your view.
Then you tried to find evidence that supported your view and chose to use media reports instead of good quality evidence.

As I said, I don't disgree with the idea that mothers to be should be able to make up their own minds.
But ignoring knowledge does not help anyone in this task.

Just another thought, besides the alcohol there are a number of other ingredients in some drinks that you don't tend to get bundled together in other consumables; Aspartame, sulphates, aroma compounds, artificial yeast, blah blah blah.

Here's a link for all you truckers out there

Gowd knows what's aloud in alco-pops and those vodka drinks that glo in the dark.

I think the reason pregnant drinkers dont post links to studies to prove safety is that the burden of proof is not on them, it's on those who say that light drinking is dangerous and are as yet to prove it.

If I said "Dont eat mangoes because they can harm your unborn child" you would, quite rightly, tell me to prove it because it goes against accepted truth.

That's how scientific research works. There's accepted theory and then people challenge that.

At the moment most people dont believe that a glass of wine a week will harm a baby. It's up to those that think it does to prove otherwise.

This is very difficult to do due to inability to isolate causational factors and for the reasons I outlined in my earlier posts, but it doesnt mean that it's not necessary.

At the moment, we just get these half baked "studies" - i.e. extrapolations or traingulations of other people's research, often done by people with an interest (always worth checking out who's funding studies) that can prove pretty much anything. Last week some kiwi researchers "proved" that drinking whilst pregnant gives you better behaved children. As one Mumsnetter pointed out "maybe the parents are just oo pissed to notice the bad behaviour"

baggedandtagged - I'd go further and say pregnant drinkers don't have any burden of proof. I certainly don't feel the need to explain or prove myself to other mothers about drinking or any ther pregnancy / child rearing choices.

bennet

the evidence all all so mixed though! for everyone that says "even one glass will cuase FAS " there is another that says " moderation is fine". I am confused

so what I do is I look into the world

do I know of anyone with FAS, no
do any of my peers born in the 60s and 70s have FAS, no
did any of the sad incidents of MC (SB) I know off occur due to PG caning, no, none

then, using me own opinion, I make my decision

I can see some links of course. smoking/lung cancer. YES. motorcycles and road death. YES

maternal alcohol consumption and FAS? NO

but thats just my opinion

totally agree porcamiseria.

What was it Vic Reeves said about statistics?

I know four woman whom drank and smoked whilst pregnant and now have children with (some or all)ADHD, Learning difficulties, Asthma, hyper activity, speech problems and so on. I can think of 10 more woman I know (with children) that didn't smoke and drank on the odd occasion if at all and the children don't have any of the above.

Now that may be complete coincidence but maybe not; at the same time you would have a hard time trying to identify exactly what caused what ? so again it comes down to informed individual choices.

I don't think it's a case of my Dad's better than your Dad so I'm not listening; you do what you feel - but there is no harm in discussing how anyone came to the conclusion they did (so long as one doesn't try to ram jam stuff down one's electronic throat)?

i'd imagine in your situation, knowing these 4 women, I'd likely have a different opinion

curious, how much did they consume?

how nicely we all are debating this !

@BaggedandTagged

"That's how scientific research works. There's accepted theory and then people challenge that."

But the scientific concensus is that small amounts of alcohol does increase risk.

You seem to be conflating scientific concensus (and the guidance it produces) and popular acceptance of such a concensus.

And the two are seperate, often very divided.

@porcamiseria

Well, I don't think your tactic is the best one.
Relying on personnal experience leads you open to so many sorces of cognitive bias your conclusion are very likely to be flawed.
Not to mention it opens you up to the charge of arrogance (I know better than anyone else on this subject etc etc)

And I'd like to remind you that at n point have I said that FAS or Miscarriage is caused by having 1-3 units a week.
Even FASD doesn't kick in at that level.

But there are other harms that are more likely at that level of consumption.

And to ease any confusion, all the government guidance says to abstain.
If you choose to disregard such clear statements I'm not sure you can claim confusion.

why arrogance?
I clearly said

the evidence/advice is confusing, and IT IS!!
I therefore look to what I see
but thats my opinion only

opinions are like arseholes, we all have one. I am not disagreeing with you, just expressing a different opinion

you, however, are getting rather wordsmithy on me if I may say

anyway, lets agree to disagree

Porcamiseria! Now there is a word I haven't heard since a child! You're not portuguese by any chance are you?

From what i can see you're arguing for moderate consumption...I cannot see where the problem lies in that at all. If we followed every single guideline we'd spend the next 9 months hibernating. I know I don't plan to!

italiano!!

"And I'd like to remind you that at n point have I said that FAS or Miscarriage is caused by having 1-3 units a week.
Even FASD doesn't kick in at that level.

But there are other harms that are more likely at that level of consumption."

such as what?

sorry to bring down the tone a little, but isn't all this talk of booze making you all gag for a nice glass of red wine?! I've just spent the last 20 mins catching up on this interesting debate, and now all I can think of is wiiiiiine!!!

I may start a new thread about the dangers to our unborn children of DISCUSSING drinking alcohol while pregnant... now where is that corkscrew?

I totally disagree with you all. I enjoy a drink as much as the next person but to not give up drinking alcohol for 9 - 18 months for your child as a mother I find totally selfish you don't even need it...I work with children with fetal alcohol syndrome and believe me if you could see the effect it has on memory loss attention and attachment you would probably think twice about that glass of wine or beer for the sake of your child's life time. sorry to be a killjoy you have plenty of time to drink when not pregnant why risk it?

@Librashavinganotherbiscuit

That's a pretty big question.

And one on which we have incomplete data.

It would appear that there is some increased risk of childhood cancers, especially leukemia & brain/nerve tumors.
There may also be a link to paternal alcohol use at conception.
This may be as high as 24%.

There is someevidence linking linking this amount of alcohol consumption to increased levels of symptoms of ADHD (inattention, impulsivity), increased externalizing behavior, decreased general cognitive functioning, and deficits in learning and memory tasks.

There does not seem to be much evidence linkng lowe levels of alcohol consumption to bad birth outcomes. These include miscarriage, stillbirth, prematurity, growth issues and birth defects including fetal alcohol syndrome.

There may also be a link regarding alcohol consumptive behaviour in future life but I think it's very early to be making any pronouncements about that just yet.

Does that make sense?

gosh - I am not drinking at all and am quite surprised by how many people are! I agree that it is probably safe to have a glass of wine every now and then, but its definitely safe not to have any at all so am erring on the side of caution. I don't plan to drink when I am breastfeeding either. I might have half a glass of something if it was a very special occassion, e.g. christmas or something, but otherwise it doesn't seem like a very big sacrifice just to abstain altogether to be on the safe side. Please don't launch at me with loads of remarks about how I am being judgemental because I am not - if you want to drink in pregnancy its up to you - you are responsible for your baby's wellbeing and its none of my business what you do, but personally, I wouldn't do it. For what its worth I know my Mum took the same view when she was pregnant with me and my siblings, although she might have been in a minority at the time.