TTC grads - the one where the old temp buddies come home to roost!!!!

[rainbowdays]

The old thread was getting impossibly slow on my computer, so decided that it was time to create a new one with hopefully Rah and Ready joining us, and with a whole new due date list.....

so MrsM, Momwi - come and start the list and hopefully Rah and Ready will come here now too!!!!!

I am so excited that the temp buddies are back together again, can you tell?!?!?!?

Everyone's a bit fiesty today!!! .

I dont fit into the Honey / Greedy camp in that MMR debates are not a pet hate for me but I don't think there is any substance to the autism stories. Having said that for my own peace of mind I did speak to my HV about whether the MMR or seperate jabs were better. There was never any question in my mind that I would not have the innoculations - just that I may opt out of the MMR. After all, as honey says I do feel lucky that my kids can have them. There are plenty of children who for medical reasons can't have them done and I'd hate to think I'd contributed to an already sick child getting ill from mumps because I hadn't done enough to stop it spreading - if you see what i mean.

Anyway the reasons why I opted for the MMR was that a) it gets it all over in one hit rather than having 3 seperate jabs over 3 months b) the seperate jabs are not produced in the UK and there are very strict guidelines about how to transport innoculations etc. This was only a minor thing but in all the MMR seemed the best way forward for us.

Hi Mrsmc!!! Wow, its amazing to hear you already planning for 3 and when you may get about it . I struggle to find enough individual time with the 2 that I have, but I guess thats because I squeeze in a 4 day a week job as well. In my case I think my boys would not get enough of me if I had another child... In fact I'm thinking that I may drop down to 3 days a week. I'm struggling with 4 and find myself working most evenings to keep on top of it all. Generally I'm feeling a bit shit about it... The only problem is that redundancy is a strong possibility this year so I'd rather be made redundant as a 4 day a week person rather than 3 (actually chooster ponders how much difference it would actually make - Must check!!!).

MrsMc - Good to hear that the sickness is getting a bit better, even if you do have off days... I agree on the nappy bins, ours was really stinky, and didn;t have one for Theo but I guess you'll need it as you are in an aparment and taking nappies out a lot would be difficult???

right - 2 mins late for a meeting - shit, shit... I just feel i am constantly late for things these days (fettle, you def made the right decision giving up work )

Hello All

Chooster - funny you should say that about me and work, was just thinking that myself yesterday that I definitely made the right decision! SO loving spending time with Toby - I was looking for some work yesterday and it made me realise that I really didn't want to find any!!! (Sure it was actually better for DD to be at nursery as she was probably much more advanced in certain things than Toby is, but at least I'm getting to enjoy him more!). [Although why I enjoy the carnage that he leaves around the house, I don't know!].

Anyway, haven't got long, fending my little boy off with my foot at hte moment, as he tries to bash the computer with his mop!!

Just had to say that I was too tired last night to respond, but have to agree wiht Honey and Greedy. The MMR & autism study has been completely discredited - in fact the main study author was alleged to have financial links with a company making the single vaccines I seem to remember from a panarama-type programme on it a few years back.

I'm not saying there are not risks, but there are risks involved with everything and you have to make the right decision for you and your baby at the end of day. There has been a link made recently between calpol and asthma, peanuts while pg and breast-feeding and allergies, no peanuts while pg and breast-feeding and allergies, red wine and bad health, red wine and good things, chocolate and bad things, chocolate and good things - you get my drift! From my own personal thoughts though, I felt any risk of any of the immunisations far outweighed any of the more serious risks of the diseases themselves which the immunisations were preventing.

Nappy bins - we have one - the ones that twist so the smell doesn't get out. Every so often it does reek, but a good clean and bleach sorts that out. But I wouldn't necessarily say that they are a necessity!

Double buggies never had one - never needed one, but have to agree that from an outside perspective the Phil and Ted's one does look a little unfair on whoever gets to sit on the underneath! But it may be a dream to drive!

Right - Toby has now emptied all my bedside cupboard drawers (found a spare pg test! Hope I won't be needing that - 2 children are enough for me!!!]

xxx

Thanks ladies I'm sorry, I did think I'd said before but maybe didn't. I feel I need a nappy bin because it just isn't enough in a small apartment in the heat here to bag them up and take them out each time you go out and with double the amount, I really feel like I need something to keep them in check in between outings.

Also, a sling just won't happen, too damn hot.

I hear you all on the spreading yourself thinner and thinner the more children you have, it is a very good point.

oops...sorry didnt mean to anger anyone over the mmr just im clueless on it and just wanted your wise words of wisdom. there was never any doubt in my mind that he wouldnt be having it as i agree with you honey on how lucky this country is to be able to offer that service but i just didnt know about having it done singularly or together. basically i think i have been scare mongered a bit by friends and i would hate to think that in the future should oscar get diagnosed with autism i would been riddled with guilt thinking i could have avoided it. Had a chat with the hv today and she backed up everything you guys have said to me so thankyou...even if i did get your back up

mrs - when is xavier 1? oscar is 6 feb i couldnt remember the age gap between them. i know with cassius and oscar its 2 weeks

oh and nappy bins, i have one and i empty it daily. the bin is a massive treck down the bottom of the garden so i just take the nappies out at the end of the day with the rest of that days rubbish

Damn - not pg but want to join in the fun with m'old ttc crew. Am I allowed to chip in? DD is 28 weeks btw.

Hi Chocolatedays
Don't have to be pg to be on here - we are all just TTC grads and lots of temping buddies. All at different stages with LOs from 6 weeks upwards and now we have a nice new influx of preggers ones too!! Come and join us!

MrsMc - don't have a nappy bin but do have a nappy bucket with lid - seems to work fine for me -although I do bag up smelly ones in it!

Now I am afraid I do have a slightly differing opinion on vaccines and am very torn about them. My mum did not have any vaccinations and she refused a couple of them for me, I did have measles as a kid and I never had the BCG. Obviously these were different times and different diseases but nonetheless nasty ones that were risky. But so far I have survived!

I suppose my perspective comes from the other end of the spectrum: That we all have a built-in immune system which is dependent on our state of health. I think we can (or at least I can as a first time mum) be made to feel like we are "risking" our children's lives by not vaccinating them, but in reality an unvaccinated child is not necessarily an unprotected child. Everybody has some natural immunity and I guess my worries are about the toxins that are in vaccines (lets face it vaccination is a big business that makes a lot of money - and is not just altruistic).
I do agree with honey and greedy that the autism/Chrohns disease link is not solid but have to say if there was a history of those in my family I would be even more torn.
On a basic level I cannot help but think that giving our babes small doses of all these nasty diseases all at the same time is not ideal. But do understand there is no viable alternative yet.

So for my part I do have many doubts but am not convinced enough yet to opt out completely. What I am going to do is leave them a little later than required (as I did with all the first year jabs) I will also make sure Cassius is in tip top health when he has them - no hint of a sniffle etc so his own immune system can respond in the best way possible. Finally I will also take him to the homeopath before and after to get some good pre/post vaccination remedies to help him recover from them.

OK - my last point - honest is that if someone believes the vaccination will protect them then they should not be bothered about anyone who has not had the vaccinations iykwim?!

All that is JUST my opinion and only really means that I do have doubts - do not want to offend anyone!

I am going to run for cover before honey and greedy see me!!

Hi chocolatedays - as seaside says, you are more than welcome!!! . Think you were sunshinedays is that right??

The MMR thing is interesting as none of what you say is wrong Seaside, however about your last point, , I think it is our responsibility to have our kids immunised to stop outbreaks from occuring. There are plenty of vulnerable kids whose immune systems can't cope with these diseases. A pal of mine had a daughter who was receiving treatment for cancer and couldn't have the innoculations and it would have been awful for her to have caught something due to an outbreak of measles / mumps etc. As you say though, again this is just my opinion!!!

Iamamummy ? Xavier is 1 on 24/1 so there?s just less than 2 weeks between our boys

Hey Chocolatedays 28 weeks, wow, where is time going? How are things and what is your DD?s name?

Seaside, hello you! Interesting thoughts on the vaccinations, to be honest, I still have to look into where I can have them done, never mind whether I should. Thank you for sharing those thoughts. So what are you doing for Cassius? 1st? can?t believe it, time has gone so quickly.

right- sorry to have upset anyone re vaccinations-

iamamummy- i understand your worries- i didnt get cross by what you said.

seaside- have to agree with chooster- the ultimate point of vaccines is to get rid of the diseases- if there is not a high enough uptake then it is very likely that outbreaks of measles etc will happen.

Pasted from wikipedia-

During the 20th century, it is estimated that smallpox was responsible for 300?500 million deaths. In the early 1950s an estimated 50 million cases of smallpox occurred in the world each year. As recently as 1967, the World Health Organization estimated that 15 million people contracted the disease and that two million died in that year. After successful vaccination campaigns throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, the WHO certified the eradication of smallpox in December 1979. To this day, smallpox is the only human infectious disease to have been completely eradicated.

Let the debate continue....

hiya MrsMc and Chooster

Chooster - you are very right in mentioning those vulnerable children. Am adding that perspective to my mixed up views!!!

Really hoping no one will be offended or angered by my post - I am still formulating my view and it helps to have open discussion among the wise ones here! Plus I do enjoy playing devils advocate sometimes

Mrs - I cannot believe I am about to be mummy to a one year old We are having a party on Saturday with all our fellow NCT babes at the village Hall were we had our classes which should be fun then we will have a tea party on Thursday (his actual bday) but prob that party will have more adults than babies!!
But most excitingly we are going on holiday on the 23rd for 2 weeks to Antigua. We are going with my parents which is now an appealing prospect as it means in built baby entertainers and babysitting!! Cannot wait

Ok... now I am officially scared!!!

Xposts honey - So funny you mentioned the small pox stat as in my research it does say that govt stats show that death rates for all infectious diseases have fallen drastically before vaccines have been introduced except for smallpox which initially increased by 275% and then decreased - LOL - I always hated stats in psychology!

The reason I did not have the BCG when I was younger was because it coincided with a report in the Lancet (early 80's) about the fact that there had been an increase in TB since the vaccine had been introduced???? ! No idea if that was ever followed through or dis-proven - probably - anyhoo - it got me out of that big fat jab which I was very happy about at the time!! So they still do the BCG? Also - didn't they used to do a patch test to see if you had natural immunity or am I mixing it up with another one??

Loving all the info and debate !!

OH no - sorry Ready don't be scared It is all just a massive learning experience like everything. I remember not knowing how a mortgage worked (well ykwim!!) when I was a student and only rented (ahhh those were the days!) then you have to get one and learn all about it - so I guess what I am saying is having a baby is sort of like buying a house???!!! Oh I am rambling now hope you know where I am coming from!!!

And dont get me wrong I am 99% sure Cassius will have the vaccines I just like looking at all the pov's

On the immunisation debate - I will sit on the fence until one of you pushes me off!!!!

ALSO : Just jumping in to explain, that I am not really mad wanting 4dc's ! I figure that having three playing together, one will always be left out or pig in the middle, so having 4 evens things out, it can be two against two !!! No really, it was I was middle child of three growing up and hated it. Never wanted three children, it was always going to be 2 or 4 that I would aim for. So having gone for number three, I now need to even things back up again, and I figure that it can't be that much harder, certainly 1 to 2 was harder than 2 to 3, in terms of my time spent with each child. The more children, the more they keep each other entertained while I focus on just one! Weird logic I know, but I am mad! So MrsMc - don't think of it as spreading yourself thinner, but having more time due to the children enjoying time entertaining each other together too, I hope you eventually join us in the madness of four for fun!

Ready - Why are you officially scared???? While waiting for your answer; back to a previous post.I use reusables. I got a birth to potty pack when pg with dc1. They have got used irratically, but I have gradually learnt that different nappies work on different babies. I now have a selection of nappies and have my own particular favorites, and love using them. I am using them more now, than I did with the previous two, due to having a proper utility room with everything set up to make it easy. However I do not used reusables 24/7, I use disposable nappies at times for my convieniance. If you look into reusables, there are two clear camps: the All in one, and the nappy and wrap. I am definitely a "nappy and wrap" fan.

OK I am in a waffle mode, reminds me of when Rah used to comment on my verbal overuse when in the 2ww way back when...

I too am big believer in vaccinations. We have had measle outbreaks down here due to parents not vaccinating - SCARY stuff when you have a small baby who is still too young for the MMR, but you are out and about anyway. The studies undertaken were very small (25 participants in a different counrty (switzerland?)) funded by a drug company that provides single vaccinations, and undertaken by a doctor that sold them through a clinic. Measles outbreaks are getting more and more - but also Mumps can make boys infertile . Mimi will be having hers at 13 months. DS1 is dyspraxic, but this was obvious (the signs were) before his MMR, so not related at all. And thats my opinion......

Ready i have never used reusables its one of those things i have always thought i would like to, but never got round to doing

We are down to BF morning and night now. Can do that forever

Hi all - great debate on the vaccines... very interesting POVs. Both of mine have had all the vaccinations available cos I agree with the herd immunity argument. Having said that, Isla did really suffer after her mmr jab (Nelly was fine) because she was at the tail end of a snotty cold... so it is really important that they are 100% fit before they have it.

Re nappies - I am a big fan of reuasables... unfortunately Isla's bottom is not and she regularly suffers from eczema in the nappy area (either due to the lactose intolerance - she still has the occasional bit of cheese or yogurt, or teething) and it is made much worse by the washables... so she is mostly in disposables now I do still use them occasionally - my favourites these days are Stuffables. Google them - fantastic groovy prints, really good leak protection and so easy to put on, dry really quickly.. i could go on! Wish i could use them more!

Ready - I'm a bit worried I have said something silly. I hope I haven't implied somehow that I didn't think you would ever get here. Or maybe you've just used that as a turn of phrase. i'm not explaining myself very well. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I hope I haven't inadvertently offended you and I am ecstatic that you are here!

OK, must stop waffling and better go and do something useful!

hiya

right not going to go on about vaccines anymore . dex has his mmr tommorrow.

ready- dont be scared! please!

rainbow- not sure about your logic about haviNG 4! i am actually still pretty undecided- think i need a proper chat with dp...

not sure what i think about charlotte church's new baby's name...

having a lovely time going to toddler groups etc with dex- so lovely seeing him bombing about- a friend said he looked like a mini bodybuilder he is so small and stocky!

evening all

God - honey I am so sorry I did not realise Dex was having his MMR jab now - Doh - how insensitive of me to go banging on about it Hope it goes well tomorrow xxx
LOL about Charlotte Church

My goodness - i disappear for a couple of days and it takes me 20 hrs to catch up!

Am sticking my nose into this one. My DD will be having the MMR unless they come up with some more info before then. I wouldnt forgive myself if she caught it because i'd chosen to opt out.

The BCG - im 22 and had it done when i was 14 i think......we had the immunity test on the arm etc a week or so before the jab but its a load of crap. They didnt care whether the dots were still there or not - they gave it to you anyway! It hurt like hell and leaves a nasty scar but its gotta be done!

I use/did use re-usable nappies with DD. Im desperate to but bought some used ones off a family member and the prefold inserts are crap - obv old and dont absorb anymore so at the moment DD is on disposables until i decide what to do. Im most probably going to fork out for some new prefolds.....just affording the big payout that is the problem! I know you save a lot of money in the end but when you're living off SMP it aint easy as im sure you're aware!!!!

Right, gotta scoot - million and 1 things to do before DD goes to sleep!

just had to google charlotte church's baby's name! now i get it! on a similar note two of the mums at nursery have had babies in the past 2 weeks. one is called ellis (the only other one i have heard of, even though its not that unusual!) and one was born on 5th Jan (dd1s bday) and is called Keira (dd1's real name!!) seemed a bit weird to me...............just waiting to hear of someone having a marcy now!

rainbowdays - i was a middle child of three too, but unlike you i really loved it, which was why i always wanted three! it was only once i got into the whole baby producing thing i thought 4 might be nice......................until i had marcy and now i have changed my mind again!

hello evryone else!......................so many people on here now to keep up with! but im sure i can manage.

greedy - good to hear that there are positive stories of being one of three, so if dc4 doesnot happen for me, I will come back to you for further reassurance!

Someone tell me Charlotte Church's baby name - I don't know!

DH told me today of someone with a surname of Turner, who called their daughter Paige! Pretty funny to me!

Greedy - creepy stalker behaviour if you ask me!

Got to dash as ever - still thinking of you all, but still no time to catch up properly - you are all so chatty! (which is good!).

xxx

Just googled it!! Now I understand too!

Perhaps she's a secret MN reader!! Or a Honey stalker!!!
xxx

Fettle - PMSL at Paige Turner, that's on a par with Iona Ford