smoking in pregnancy

[fallala]

An acquaintence(close friend of a friend) is six months pregnant, and has not managed to stop smoking ( about ten a day I think)
I don't smoke (used to smoke the odd one or two but stopped when I realised I was starting to enjoy it).

I appreciate it must be hard to give up but can it really be THAT hard? I struggle to be positive about this person at the best of times. Actually I think she is a silly little so and so. Am I being a bit harsh to think shre is being stupid and selfish? Not that I am perfect but I would never have done anythign to harm my babies in the womb.

janus, bossykate - I didn't smoke and have no judgement to pass on those that do but I did have a similar lifestyle before getting pg and it was such a shock to the system giving it up.

err...by it I just meant drinking, socialising and dancing...and being totally independent - reading it now it looks like I mean something else!!

hi sofia, i know from reading various posts of yours that your dh's ex is - to use an american phrase - a piece of work. it must be very difficult to deal with, especially as you seem to have to pick up the pieces.

i think we have to be judgmental sometimes, otherwise we risk condoning behaviour which is unacceptable, e.g. most of us are "judgmental" when it comes to murder, rape, child abuse etc. As intelligent, discriminating adults, i believe it is our duty to use our judgment as best we can.

however, if we are looking at the specific issue of what "consumption" (for want of a better word) is acceptable during pregnancy it does seem there are a variety of opinions available (except, ime, on smoking which seems to be considered universally a no-no).

i think the point i was making, agreeing with marina, is that nagging, judging and finger pointing just don't seem to have the desired effect whereas a more supportive approach might work better...

not sure this is applicable to your specific circumstances though.

best of luck

I have been invited to a workshop for midwives about "dealing with pregnant snokers", one of the things that struck me was that most pregnant smokers are NOT offered the patch... whilst they could use it safely.
Also it was about encouraging women AND partners to look at their options and to inform them of the risks - as according to some surveys they have done... many pregnant smokers are ill informed about the risks... for example some will say "But I'd rather have a small bay".... when the reason for the baby being small hasn't really occured to them (i.e. placenta deprived of oxygen!)

Lots of great contributions here.
I should say I would never say anything negative to this woman regards her smoking and apparently she wishes she could cut down but "can't" so were I ever in the position of being supportive ( although I am not really sure what that would involve)Of course that is what I would be.
Her husband is very worried/annoyed about it and has been asking people what risks were involved and I suggested he search the web.
I was interested to hear from smokers regards how hard it was to give up and it seems the answer is "very" !
Incidentally I was not arguing the case for drinking in moderation , just that I did not believe it was on the same par as smoking ,harm wise, but if new research shows otherwise that just strenghthens the case against smoking AND drinking. Just because lots of other things are bad for you ( alcohol, caffeine, fat) does not weaken the case against smoking.
Noone would blow smoke into a newborn baby's face would they? Surely smoking when pregnant is at least as bad for the baby?

Message withdrawn

Tomorrow I am visiting the only woman I know who smoked throughout her pregnancy. .
She had an uneventful pregnancy but a near death experience birth. She did not breastfeed and her child has numerous health and mental problems.

I would not conclude too much from this non scientific sample of one .
However I do feel a gulf between us as friends as I can't understand how she could put her baby at risk like this.She still smokes (about 20 a day) as does her dh, often in the presence of her child. We have never discussed her smoking and I never would bring it up.I find it hard to reconcile my lovely intelligent friend with her stupid selfish behaviour.
I think this may be what you mean, Fallala.

I smoked pre-dd, gave up as soon as found out was preggers (when I was a day late). Would never ever dream of smoking when pregnant or anywhere near a child (though did have about 10 last week when had first clubbing night out since birth - doh). Jasper, does not breastfeeding have a connection with your friend's smoking? I failed to breastfeed yet my dd is healthy - mentally and physically.

Didn't actually mean anything by the fact my friend did not bf other than it was all part of the dreadful circumstances of the birth - basically she was unconscious for several days post partum so bf was not an option. I just feel her child did not get the best start in life on many counts ; lots of things were outwith her control but some like smoking were.
Antonia3 was it very hard to give up smoking?

I am one of 4 children. My mother smoked during all of her pregnancies. The birth weights of her babies ranged from 7 to 8lbs.... she never had ANY of us early (give or take a day or 2). 3 of us have asthma, 1 doesn't. Incidentally, 2 of us were bf and 2 were not.... I'm just trying to point out that smoking during pregnancy is not always (not even MOSTLY) responsible for complications!
It's very easy to criticise people who smoke during pregnancy when you don't smoke yourself. Fallala - I'm sure you probably did do something during your pregnancy that wasn't in the best interest of the baby!!! Did you walk near a road where there was traffic and pollution??

I think people can get very hysterical about things these days! And facts need to be ascertained before people pass judgement. I'm SURE people don't intentionally smoke to harm their baby!

I smoke, but I stopped for the first 4 mths of pregnancy... then I started having half a cigarette a day ( I know.... it was a pathetic gesture). We NEVER smoke around the baby, we stand outside now. But please don't reprimand people for not giving up when they find out they are pregnant! It's a VERY hard thing to do and can coz a lot of other nasty side effects as well. I do agree that mothers should try to cut down if not give up, but don't blame every medical problem a child has on the fact the mother smoked.... It must be bad enough having a child with problems without having gossip-mongers blaming you behind your back!

Alcohol is MUCH more damaging than smoking (proven medically.... not speculation).

It's so strange when I think of this thread. Personally I'm so paranoid about putting anything in my body when carrying a baby that I won't even take tylenol for a headache. I rather wait it out. Though most websites say to try other alternatives for colds and headaches if you can. I know tylenols the most recommended safe med to take. I can't even imagigine (myself personally) using any kind of alcohol while pregnant.

Also like batters said about the different info giving out on alcohol consumption when pregnant How can you really trust any opinions on whether something is safe or not. One says one thing and then someones else says another. That's why I try and avoid things as much as possible. Unless I'm dying which I feel like with this head cold.

Mum2toby, I think that I generaly agree with you that mothers do not deliberatly smoke to damage their babies. But, I was in hospital for 2 weeks prior to the birth of ds with pre-eclampsia. I shared a room with a number of other mums to be who had a variety of problems. One of them was a youngish girl who was in hospital because her baby was small for dates and she has a low level of amniotic fluid. She would get up and anounce to the ward, 'Well I'm off to poison my baby now' and go out of the hospital for a cigarette. I realise that she was probably doing this for effect, and possibly some dark humour, but it gave me the chills. She knew that it was harming her baby, and she new that her baby was having problems, and she still carried on. It was so sad.

PS, Good on you Mum2toby for not smoking sround your baby. I realise that giving up is very, very hard to do.

This thread has struck a chord with me. I was in a new relationship with a man who lived quite a distance away from me when I found out i was pregnant. I also was quite young, smoked and drank regurlarly. I was almost three months pregnant by the time I found out and had being having a hectic time. As soon as I found out I stopped drinking and cut down on my smoking, but found it VERY hard to give up totally. The amount of things that changed within the few short months before my ds was born was frightening (moved town, changed job, social scene, etc). I continued to smoke a cigerette or two a day even though I knew it was harmful, maybe it was just one change too much? I gave up when my ds was born, started again when I stopped BF him and have just recently stopped again (fingers crossed). I don't condone smoking in pregnany at all and I'd never smoke again throughout a pregnancy but I would have some understanding of someone who at least cuts down and tries to stop. BTW my ds has good health and we do not allow smoking around him at all (slightly hypocritical but every little helps I think). I feel angry though when I see heavily pregnant smoking and embarrassed that I was one (and slightly nervous about admitting it here).

I personally think that the minute you are pregnant you have to put the new life growing inside you first, and if you can't give up then you are selfish. There are plenty of ways to give up if you really want to. Accupuncture and hypnotherapy have been found to be very effective.

how did you give up, debh?

Batters - I LOVE the sound of that research, now I now why my DS is so bright for his age! Cheers!!

I don't condone smoking or drinking heavily whilst pregnant but this argument can be carried to extremes about being 'selfish' to the growing child - I mean, are we meant to stay wrapped in cotton wool for nine months, then whilst b/feeding, then when bringing up children etc etc. As I said earlier on this thread, life is about making choices, so long as we know the risks (and let's be honest, you've got to be pretty thick not to know the risks involved) - you make your decision and as others have said, giving up an addiction is very, very difficult - and can cause more stress than carrying on in moderation.

(Actually I personally loathe smoking so I can't believe I'm arguing 'for' it - I am just so anti the nanny state attitude about this sort of thing!)

All smoking is harmful to an unborn child, but the vast bulk of research indicates that small amounts of alcohol isn't harmful and that it takes a huge amount to cause foetal alcohol syndrome. Also caffeine is harmless unless you drink masses of it when it may cause miscarriage. No links to birth defects though. I think we have to accept that smoking is vastly damaging to unborn children - this isn't a moral judgement, just a medical one. To me, the scariest thing is how smoke can affect your unborn child's whole future. As SofiaAmes says, it can damage your baby girl's ovaries in the womb, 20plus years before she will have any need for the eggs that may well have been damaged. Also, low birthweight caused by smoking dramatically increases a child's risk of heart disease in adulthood. Of course there is a vast difference between a fag a day or so and a 50 a day addict, and I am sure it is incredibly hard to give up, but I do feel pregnant women should be given no-holds-barred information about smoking in pregnancy and at the same time lots of support to give up, including nicotine patches and support groups. I do think that there are political and ethical problems with treating mother and child as completely separate entities from conception (ie you are guilty of assault on your child if you behave in a way that may damage them) but I also think it is unrealistic to say that a child is merely a part of its mother until it is born, because it may be too late to save it then. I personally consider heavy or even moderate smoking (I suppose more than five a day...) is selfish. But selfish in a really shortsighted way. People said it must be hard for me to limit alcohol when p/g - I do like a drink and had maybe two or three small glasses a week after the first couple of months - and I said, easier to do this than cope with a damaged child for the rest of my life.
BTW Batters, the research on teetotallers v moderate drinkers is easily skewed by social factors. Teetotallers (ie women who don't drink even when not p/g) are disproportionately very poor and not educated. Moderate drinkers tend to be middle class and educated - again these are not moral judgements, just observations. The effect may be more due to greater stimulation of the child than the effect of alcohol in the womb - though I would obviously like to think that the odd glass of red would have stimulating effect on ds's brain, I doubt it!

Aloha - where is this medical research?? I have never seen anything about it affecting a baby girls ovaries??!?? I'm not arguing with you I'm just curious as to where you get your facts. I find these 'scare tactics' useless and destructive.

Smoking heavily can reduce the efficiency of the placenta. Drinking alcohol, even moderately can have damaging affects.

Had a quick google and found this

www.nature.com/fertility/content/full/ncb-nm-fertilitys33.html

It is a very detailed article that looks at all sorts of risks. The effects of maternal smoking on future reproductive health of their children is out-lined in the section:-

Effects on future fertility that are induced in foetal/early life

Which is quite a way into the article. It is not the most user friendly article, as publications in Nature are written in a very dry, and technical language.

I tend to agree with you, Mum2toby that scare tactics do not tend to work, the warnings on the packets do not seem to put people off. More help and support for smokers who want to stop is what is needed. That said, the evidence of the effects of smoking is quite 'Solid'.

Having just posted that, I hope that you don't think that I did it to make you feel bad, I only did it because you asked, and seemed interested in the information. For what it is worth I think that all of life is risk, and we make the best choices that we can for our children given the circumstances we find ourselves in. As mothers we all fall down on something. I fall down so often I am seldom upright.

Mum2toby, there is a lot of information about the various ways smoking in pregnancy, and passive smoking in babies and young children, can affect their health and wellbeing well into adulthood, here . If you look at the factsheet number seven, Reproduction, on that website, you will see a reference to medical research demonstrating a link between smoking in pregnancy and potential fertility problems in female children.
My mother smoked throughout both her pregnancies because the main research in those days focused on lung cancer and tobacco use, so she didn't know any better. I am very thankful that I grew up healthy and have one healthy ds, but I am not sure what I would think if I was unable to have children just because she smoked. At least there is validated research to help us all assess the risks involved these days.

Thanks hmb and Marina. I shall have an eyeball at that link.

I don't disagree with any of you that smoking is not good for you or the baby. Anything that you do to yourself that isn't good for you is going to affect the baby though!! We shouldn't just concentrate on smokers and what selfish bad mothers they are!