Baby before marriage - parents NOT happy

[Oli16]

Me and my boyfriend are expecting our first baby and the way my parents have reacted makes me feel like I’m having a teen pregnancy (I’m 33, been with partner for 5 years who they love)

since telling them at Christmas they have been really weird about it, they say their excited but I’ve had multiple conversations with my mother who keeps asking me how “committed” my partner is and “why hasn’t he proposed to you yet” - I’m finding out their quite traditional and even though I say we have plans to get engaged / married quite soon, it’s left a very bitter feeling between us.

Its pretty common to have a baby before marriage but she says she “feels” for me which made me feel horrendous and upset.

has anyone else experienced people being dicks about having a baby before marriage?

so disappointed and I think they seem miffed too

Bitter because they are stuck under the shackles of marriage pretending they are so happy being married to a man and anyone who isn't happily married is just such a loser. Makes me sick. There is absolutely no feminism on mumsnet. Just a load of sheep and if you disagree with their point of view they really can't handle it. I've done this before with friends and married people absolutely lose their shit if you criticise marriage in anyway, it's like you are personally criticising them. Carry on being slaves to the patriarchy women of mumsnet by all means but don't expect everyone to agree with your point of view. 😜

Well someone sounds bitter....

Marriage is a legal contract that offers protections if the relationship breaks down, as well as during the marriage. In m/f relationships, unless the woman has greater assets going into the relationship or is the higher earner, it tends to work in their favour particularly if the couple have children. The 50:50 division of assets is a starting point. The court can adjust that to take account of different future earning potential and even pension provisions. They can also order spousal support.

Marriage wasn’t ever designed to protect women’s financial interests but, much as with the magic wand massager, women have found it has unexpected benefits.

I have found this whole thread both illuminating and disturbing. I am in my mid-50s and looking back over my life I would say of the closest 20 or so women friends I have had only about 3 or 4 were NOT the main breadwinner. About 3 of them decided not to have kids. Of those that did want kids about half of them were not married to their long term partner when they had their children (though some of those married the partner a decade or more later). All this ‘get married for your own protection’ is completely alien to me and it is far removed from my own experience.

Are you ok hun?

https://ifs.org.uk/inequality/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/BN-The-careers-and-time-use-of-mothers-and-fathers.pdf

Having a child outside marriage is fine-until it's not. If the relationship breaks down for any reason a woman's position is far less legally protected if unmarried. Old-fashioned maybe, but that's reality.. also if you & DP buy a house together too. Your parents are understandably concerned for your situation. Don't push them away, talk to them about your situation, and about their concerns. Talk to your DP too. You are entering a new phase in your relationship-and it's too important to brush legal standing under the carpet amidst the excitement of your baby.

I think your mum is right to be concerned. You have no legal or financial protection as you aren't married. If your partner died unexpectedly all of his assets may go to his next of kin (which isn't you) and you could be left with nothing. Do you own your house jointly as tennants in common?

I get this too. I'm 35 with a baby and a 3 year old. Me and my partner travelled the world before settling down and having our children. We are now buying a house but marriage can wait as we have better things to spend our finances on (house and car ext). I don't see the point of marriage as I'm not a practicing catholic and don't want to spend money to stand in front of people and repeat what a priest says to get a piece of paper. We would have to invite quite a lot of people as we've been to quite a few weddings ourselves and have a big family. People will get offended if we don't invite them. But we will get married soon as we're practically getting forced into it by this government. If we didn't get married, we would have to pay inheritance tax (if one of us passes) and won't have a claim to the others pension ect.
Looking back we should have just eloped while we were backpacking around America 8 years ago and gone to vagas but my mam and dad would have been upset missing it.

If you don't want to get married, either:

1. Spend an hour on bookings & paperwork & get a Civil Partnership instead for now, which affords all the same sharing of assets & tax benefits.
2. Spend weeks talking about, and then a couple of hours with a lawyer writing up, legal/medical power of attorney, wills with clauses to cover both pre and post child (and any more future children) being born, your wishes for medical care & funeral etc.

Also consider your mutual plans for who will take time off when baby is small, where money will come from to cover activities of the one working less, whether the one working more will provide a cash top up into the pension of the one working less (if applicable - not tax efficient, but a civil partnership/marriage ensures access to pension in future as a shared 'pot' with no tax implications instead at least), who will cover child sick days & INSETs & school holidays etc etc etc

If one works less hours for some time, the. wishes to return to work, will the childcare costs be expected to be covered from shared funds, or is the presumption that the one working new hours will have to pay all childcare from the extra income they receive alone (this one has NO protection under law, but you see it all the time IRL and I heavily recommend you talk a LOT about this!

The legal protections can be replicated outside of civil partnership (or marriage) - but they take some time, effort, and legal fees. For the sake of your child if not yourself, get them in place!

I don’t usually comment on these threads but from reading some of these replies, I felt compelled to. Hope you see this!

Your parents are from a different generation, times have changed. Most of these comments are suggesting people get married for financial reasons, security, however reading a bit deeper, it’s all coming from a place of fear. Fear that you won’t have any money, fear that your partner will leave you. That’s why divorce rates are so high, or people stay in marriages where they are desperately unhappy. You shouldn’t get married out of fear. You should get married because you genuinely want to, not because society is telling you that you have to.

If it makes any odds, I am 31 and recently had my first baby with my partner, we have a mortgage and a nice home, aren’t married. Have life insurance. Not sure if we want to get married, but know we want to spend the rest of our lives together. We don’t need a piece of paper to tell us that.

Also, not one of my close friends are married. I know a couple of divorced people though, including my own parents.

Just do what is right for you both, in your own time, and please don’t feel pressured by anyone :)

It is certainly an idea held by those with experience of life, understanding the consequences of decisions and the effects on the female, their daughter, who is more ‘secure’ legally if married. If their attitude is based on morality, which I doubt, then there is reason to be upset. To threaten to withhold contact is petty and not helpful to anyone.

Oh dear me.

Your mother is not going about it in the right way, but she is right to be concerned about your legal protections if you share a home and children without being married. You will be in a more precarious position legally.

I second the advice of the person who posted the Citizens Advice link. Sadly, as a CA Adviser I’ve seen a lot of women with real problems because a relationship they thought would be permanent has broken up and left them and their children in a very difficult position legally and financially.

Pretending that it is a feminist power move to remain unmarried when women have children-'shackled to the patriarchy', no less - when, in practice and in reality, it has the effect of leaving a vast number of women entirely exposed to more financial risk and their children more likely to end up living in poverty, fits Robert Henderson's definition of Luxury Beliefs exactly.

I need to debunk this piece of paper notion of marriage. Civil partnerships or marriage are significant bits of paper. There is no such thing as common law marriage

CP or marriage a significant undertaking that confers legal rights around property, and finances

If you’re unmarried not in CP and the house is in his name there’s no automatic right to half house on separation. The default is unmarried partners have no rights regard each other property

inheritance tax, if not in CP or married you will be liable for a bill if estate over £325000 . That’s not a huge amount money in UK , and in many areas property exceeds that

Without a will the estate will be distributed in a prescribed family order prioritising family before partner .

I have no faith, cultural or social affiliation to marriage I just think women should be aware of implications of being unmarried and not in a CP . I have read multiple mn threads about cohabitation ending and the financial impact.

So, in life some bits of paper are really significant
bits of paper like civil partnerships or marriage or wills and Trusts

The legal protections can be replicated outside of civil partnership (or marriage) - but they take some time, effort, and legal fees.

To some extent.

However, some of them, such as wills, can later be changed by one party without the knowledge of the other.

You’re as naive as the OP.

Do you have wills? Because otherwise you’re stuffed.

You can’t deny it’s a belter of a post.

It's unhinged and incorrect.

Oh completely. But such gusto. Must be the lack of shackles that makes them so happy.

be as free spirit and unshackled as you wish but sort out the important bits of paper like civil partnerships and wills and protect yourself

It’s amazing how people go on about just a ‘piece of paper’ when talking about marriage

Lots of pieces of paper are incredibly important. Birth certificates, death certificates, passports, wills, driving licences (yes they are now plastic!) cheques, deeds, mortgage documents, exam certificates, degree certificates.

Just pieces of paper but really rather important!

Yup . Pieces of paper that matter

What on earth gave you that idea?@Mumtobabyhavoc .
Having a child with someone is a far bigger commitment than getting married.
That he doesn't want to get married shows a lack of commitment.