Whooping Cough Vaccine 2023

[Princess2022]

Hi ladies

Since the past few days I been thinking so much about whether to take the whooping cough vaccine or not.
I read so many things like women had stillbirths and felt less fetal movements in their pregnancy. This vaccine isn't tested on pregnant women either.
If I don't take it and my child suffers from Whooping cough I will regret and If I get the vaccine what if something goes wrong. I already suffered a miscarriage, I don't want to take any risk.
I'm going to go crazy thinking about what to do. Midwife asked me if I will be doing it I told her I will think about it.
I seen videos where Newborn are suffering from the cough and its really scary. But I don't want to lose my baby no matter what 🙁.
Can anyone tell me if they had reduced movements of baby after taking it or stillbirth?
I'm struggling to decide what to do.
Please be kind 🙏

What statistical data about adverse events related to the vaccine do you find concerning? Bear in mind that the whole-cell DTP vaccine was replaced with the acellular vaccine in the 1990s.

Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis Vaccines

A Closer Look at the Safety Data

• DTaP (younger children)DTaP safety reviews of Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) reports found no unexpected health concerns related to the vaccine.
• Several studies of DTaP vaccine safety have looked for neurologic problems or seizures after children were vaccinated, and found that there is no increased risk for these concerns with the DTaP vaccine.
• There is a small increased risk for febrile seizures when inactivated influenza vaccine (flu shot) is given during the same doctor’s visit as either the PCV13 (pneumococcal) vaccine or the DTaP vaccine.
• DTaP may cause mild injection site reactions. However, severe injection site reactions are rare, and may be less frequent when the vaccine is injected into the leg rather than into the arm. Reactions happen about as often when DTaP is combined with other vaccines.
• Tdap (adolescents and adults)Tdap safety reviews of VAERS reports have found no unexpected safety concerns for the general population, for people who are pregnant, or for adults over age 65.
• In the VSD, studies have found no association between Tdap vaccination and Guillain-Barré Syndrome or other neurologic disorders. Other studies have found that there is no increased risk for other types of health problems, such as allergies, blood disorders, and chronic illnesses.
• Although injection site reactions are common, studies have found a low rate of severe injection site reactions. These local reactions are unusual even when the vaccine is given at the same time as meningococcal vaccine (Menactra), or when a person receives several doses of Tdap vaccine over a short time period.

@Princess2022 I also have the itching, am 18 weeks. Waiting on blood to determine if it’s liver related (although this doesn’t normally develop until the third trimester apparently), otherwise likely hormonal and may not pass until baby is born. It’s driving me crazy and have itched my legs and back until bleeding many times now. Feel your pain.

You are anti vaxx, just admit it to yourself

And what if your child got whooping cough. There was an outbreak 10 years ago, that's why it's offered and that's why it's rare now- because people are vaccinated when pregnant.

Of course it's your choice to vaccinate but it's interesting how you're assessing the risk of the vaccine vs the risk of whooping cough.

@NatGee the number one cause of death is cardiovascular disease. Where are you getting your statistics from?

Where are the stats for causes of death?

@NerrSnerr whooping cough is very rare in the UK, so I'm not overly concerned about the chance of baby catching it. I will consider whether to vaccinate baby when the time comes, but will potentially look at options to go privately for single dose vaccines (and aluminium free if possible) rather than the 4-in-1 that they offer on the NHS. Many of the vaccines they give to babies/children are unnecessary, others are more important. I will be basing decisions on a lot of reading and research.

It's a six in one they offer babies now. Plus others.
Bear in mind non NHS vaccines are not subject to the same stringent import rules, so there is no absolute guarantee of a failsafe cold chain history for example, which would reduce their efficacy.
Practice nurse.

@cptartapp I was referring to the whooping cough jab specifically, which is a 4 in 1, but yes, that's part of the 6 in 1 now isn't it. Will definitely consider this too, when it comes to private vaccines. As I said, I won't be making any decisions before reading up on both sides of the argument.

Honestly the people not having the vaccine are risking their babies lives completely unnecessarily. Why would anyone risk their child having whooping cough? It's a terrible disease. Dh is a paramedic and goes to lots of babies and children who catch these tragic and preventable illnesses. He has not been to one single case relating to a vaccine going wrong and he's very experienced, nor have any of his colleagues, ever. It's just madness to me. Protect your babies. It's very safe and necessary.

It is very rare in the UK largely because of the vaccine programmes. The less people get vaccinated, the less rare it will be.

Obviously it is your personal choice what you do. But vaccination is an area where personal choices have wider consequences beyond the individual.

Many of the vaccines they give to babies/children are unnecessary

They're "unnecessary" because we vaccinate for those diseases. When the vaccination rates fall sufficiently, the diseases spread again. Measles is a good example. So they're not really unnecessary, are they?

This link is worth a read, especially the bit I have attached about death. www.gov.uk/government/publications/pertussis-laboratory-confirmed-cases-reported-in-england-2021/laboratory-confirmed-cases-of-pertussis-in-england-annual-report-for-2021

(But of course the whooping cough vaccine during pregnancy is unnecessary)

I had it late in my pregnancy and had zero issues. The baby was born healthy. No issues at all and I was probably as worried as you are now. Good luck OP what ever you decide to do.

@MissConductUS This is not what I meant..

Take Hep B for example.. acquired in adulthood, principally from sexual activity or drug use. Unless the mother is infected, then there is no reason to vaccinate an 8 week old baby...

Polio..common virus, much like a cold or flu, most people will have the virus in our bodies at some point. The most recent polio outbreaks have all been vaccine derived strains.

Measles.. rarely dangerous in healthy, well-nourished children and also research that shows catching measles as a child may actually help to prevent more serious illnesses like leukemia and lymphoma.

There's a strong argument to delay the start of vaccination. The quantities of aluminium injected into babies as part of the NHS programme is actually above the WHO maximum safe intake levels. Aluminium is linked to cancer, brain damage, autism, dementia, seizures.. Injected aluminium goes straight into the bloodstream and the body is not able to filter it out in the same way as ingested aluminium.

Anyway, I'm not here for a vaccine debate! OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. I get that there are 2 sides to each argument and I respect other people's decisions...

Hmmmm I wonder WHY whooping cough is rare in the U.K… maybe JUST MAYBE it’s because there’s a well established and safe vaccine. Fucking madness on this thread.

What about all the kids who aren’t “healthy and well developed”, I guess they can just fuck off and die right because you don’t want to vaccinate your kids based of dr Google

@SillyOldBear3 you are of course entitled to your opinion and your personal choices. And fair enough if you don't want a debate but for the benefit of others on this thread I have to respectfully challenge what you posted.

Hep B - it is very possible for the mother to be infected with Hep B and not know it. Hep B virus can survive on surfaces for up to a week so it is very possible to get infected without engaging in risky behaviours.

Polio - the reason polio has been virtually eradicated in most countries is because of vaccines. If less people vaccinate, it will come back. You are correct that (in very rare cases) earlier types of polio vaccines can 'shed' and cause vaccine-derived polio. However this type of vaccine is no longer used in developed countries.

Measles - measles can be extremely dangerous, even for healthy children. As well as being potentially fatal it can also cause brain damage and deafness. I don't have any knowledge re your claim that childhood exposure to measles can reduce risk of leukaemia etc, would be interested to see a source for that.

Aluminium adjuvants - here is what the WHO has to say about them - www.who.int/groups/global-advisory-committee-on-vaccine-safety/topics/adjuvants

You are correct that injected vs ingested aluminium is absorbed/retained differently - however the amount of aluminium in vaccines is so tiny that this really doesn't make any difference. It is not going to cause the conditions you describe at these levels.

Measles - measles can be extremely dangerous, even for healthy children. As well as being potentially fatal it can also cause brain damage and deafness.

Correct. Roughly 20% of unvaccinated kids in the US who catch measles need hospital care. I have a permanent 20% bilateral hearing loss due to a childhood case of measles. I was not vaccinated for it. Thanks, mum.

I wish the people who felt as strongly about vaccinating their babies also felt just as strongly about breastfeeding… Mums are so judgy when someone chooses not to vaccinate their child but will happily feed their baby powdered cows milk as opposed to natural human breastmilk which is full of natural antibiodies which help fight alot of childhood illnesses and is literally tailor made for your baby…

Each to their own with regard to vaccinations, I can understand the worries, but having lost my son and then my nephew, both as babies, within the space of a year, I would personally never risk not vaccinating. Anything that suggests it will protect my child I will accept. Only the parent can make the decision.

@Regularsizedrudy Not going to bother with a decent reply to this one! 🙈

@OrionNebula appreciate the challenge, always good to hear both sides.

Hep B - of course, though I'm basing this on my own risk and that of my child. I don't have Hep B, would be happy to test for it beforehand, and also don't plan on putting my newborn on any dodgy surfaces! So I judge my own risk to be minimal.

Polio - agree of course that vaccines have helped to keep numbers down. Having said that, cases had already fallen by 55% by 1953 and that was before the vaccine rollout. NHS website states polio symptoms as: "Most people who get polio do not have symptoms.Some people get mild, flu-like symptoms". Again, low risk though of course there are rare exceptions, as there are to all diseases.

Measles - here's one of the studies. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23575988/
Again, mostly based on hypothesis. Unfortunately, that's all that it ever can be based on.. to prove causation based on vaccine exposure alone is near impossible.. which I suppose is why it will always be such a controversial subject.

Aluminium - so WHO says aluminium study is flawed due to being based on population average hypothesis, but is also unable to prove otherwise. That's why vaccine studies (both for and against) can and will always be challenged!

Re. ingested v injected aluminium, a newborn's body is so tiny and even less equipped to remove the toxin. It's hard to prove at which levels it becomes dangerous, but it has never been rigourously evaluated.

@MissConductUS sorry to hear you were one of the rarer cases, and I do see that there is always a risk.

On another personal note, as a child I had a serious reaction to first (and only) MMR vaccine (seizures), which probably makes me more risk averse when it comes to vaccination.

I had whooping cough late last year. Before I realised what it was I had personal close contact with two friends one was heavily pregnant, the other their wife was. Thankfully they had both been vaccinated and due to feeling unwell I cancelled meeting my friend who had a baby.

I don’t know who I caught it off and I am aware that those who are vaccinated often have it more mildly. Whilst public health did get involved they weren’t interested in trying to find out who I’d had contact with unless they had contact with babies. I obviously didn’t know this for a large amount of people I’d been in contact with.

I hadn’t realised I hadn’t been vaccinated and I’ve never ever been as Ill. I didn’t work for three months, couldn’t breathe when coughing (which led me to an and e). I hope to god I never go through anything like that again and all I can say is I can see why babies die from it. If you have the choice and ability to vaccinate please do. I know my friend who was pregnant had recently taken the vaccine she nearly didn’t as she didn’t think it was thing and she was so relieved that she had done when she saw how ill I was.

What I should say is that at the time I was most infectious I had very mild symptoms that were getting worse but I was thinking chest infection and so I was in work, went on lots of public transport etc in those periods before it got to a point where I saw a gp.

@SillyOldBear3 nice to be able to have a polite debate

I see where you are coming from on Hep B and your personal risk assessment seems fair enough. I just wanted to explain the rationale behind why it is offered to babies, as agree it can seem counter-intuitive.

Yes polio could be mild in many instances but let's not forget pre-vaccination hospitals had whole wards dedicated to polio patients. I read an account by an American doctor who was hospitalised with a broken leg as a teenager and was opposite the polio ward, when he went back to the same hospital a few years later as a newly qualified doctor the ward had been turned into an office as it was no longer needed. It's definitely true that other factors besides vaccines have contributed to declining rates - better sanitation & cleaner water primarily. But to look at the relative importance of these in contributing to the decline, look at India - still has terrible water and sanitation in many places yet has more or less eradicated polio through vaccination.

Measles study is interesting, thanks for the link. Definitely an interesting hypothesis and one I hope is being researched further. But personally I would want much, much stronger evidence than that before I considered risking exposing my child to measles which is known to be so potentially devastating. And speaking personally, if I find out any friends/relatives/acquaintances have chosen not to vaccinate against measles I will avoid them like the literal plague until my newborn turns a year old and can get the vaccine.

WHO - no reputable science-based organisation like WHO will ever use the term 'proven'. All they can - and do - say is that the evidence from many large-scale, high quality studies strongly suggest vaccines (including those with aluminium adjuvants) are safe.