Dad's overnight on postnatal wards - yay or nay?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Taking this debate off another thread so as not to derail

For me, unless you book and pay for a private room, overnights are for mums and their babies only.

No recovering woman should have to handle overnights with upwards of 4 stranger men sitting in chairs in close proximity to their bed.

Dad's there to care for the woman and baby is unacceptable - not their job. Not at the expense of the other women wanting privacy overnight.

@LemonPeonies well I would have the choice of where to feed and not have been leaking bodily fluids on sheets and doubly incontinent at the same time. What an ignorant and offensive comment.

Having had 6 DC the difference in care received from the 1 st to the 6th was huge. I was left without any help or support. Straight after my C section. My DH would come in and assist me and then leave after visiting. Without him I couldn’t of looked after my Baby. However as I said previously no way do I agree with men on the ward. I was forced to stand behind to dads waiting for the toilet and in agony. Something needs to be done to recruit more midwife’s then we would t have to have men on ward

@Highfivemum it doesn’t even need to be midwives. Healthcare assistants would do for passing a baby or assisting. It’s shocking that women are left immediately post birth and physically incapacitated without support.

Yes so true. Think of Men had the babies this would be top priority

If it's unacceptable then why is there no constant, massive public outcry?

This issue is one worth fighting for, tooth and nail. Yet all I see is women battling it out against each other - 'Yes, we need men...', 'No we don't and they're a bloody nuisance...' 'Your pov is so selfish...'

Saddest of all is the posts where women seem unaware that the rest of the civilised world provides nurses to deliver necessary nursing care. The expectations are so low, in the world's sixth largest economy. Someone has done a number on British women.

The discussion has turned into one centered around men, not one centered around the needs of women and babies.

No, it’s a discussion centred around the needs of babies/women. Men just happen to be involved. The needs of some women are not to have men around at this time. The needs of other women/babies are to have someone around at this time. The ‘someone’ can be anyone who is willing to help them, just so happens in most cases to be their partners, the majority of which are men.

The HCA angle won’t work either as it’s funding that’s the problem at the core, that’s primary. The secondary issue is staff retention/recruitment. The healthcare environment has become so untenable less people are prepared to work in it versus the numbers required so the ‘employ more’ brigade are banging a broken drum. No money for extra staffing, no people willing even if the money was available. Why anyone thinks this is limited to the UK at present l have no idea, it’s a pretty universal theme. Some countries have solved it by bringing in people from third world countries on visa’s and using them as HCA’s at low rates noone in their own countries will accept (so essentially government endorsed slave labour). That’s probably the only ‘fix’ you may get if you want healthcare institutions better staffed these days.

I understand and respect that everyone has their own opinion, but what I don’t understand is why some PP claim that those of us who are in favour of letting partners stay ‘don’t put women first’. I posted earlier about my friend who was left alone and helpless after a traumatic birth because her partner couldn’t stay. My friend is very much a woman, and was in a most vulnerable situation. Not letting her partner stay did NOT put the needs of a vulnerable woman first.

In a civilised country, a leading world economy no less, a discussion on the needs of women and babies should never include arguments in favour of completely untrained people of any sex or relationship to the patients providing nursing care after delivery in a hospital.

It doesn't matter whether these friends or family of the women are annoying or considerate. Hospitals have no business relying on them to provide care. It's preposterous. At what point do you have to question the point of a hospital delivery?

How did Britain get to the point where women accept the shitty treatment they are expected to deal with?

How did Britain get to the point where women accept the shitty treatment they are expected to deal with?

probably in the same way American women ‘accepted’ the removal of their abortion rights. Many of us don’t, and object loudly. Hence the many threads. And the public inquiries into failed maternity units and hospitals.

It’s more midwives rather than nurses, we need in maternity wards, they being the ones skilled in childbirth. Or is that different in the US?

Personally I completely understand for both reasons of for & against (well most of them)

During my 1st birth I had a c-section because my son was incredibly unwell & taken to the NICU, my husband was allowed to stay & we were given a side room as we didn't know if my son would survive the night.

With my 2nd & 3rd he got to stay until visiting hours had finished, I was sad to have him go but if that was with my first birth I absolutely would not have been able to cope. So I think it's incredibly important to have leeway for exceptional circumstances. But for my 2nd & 3rd (both sections) I managed without. If there was any woman in my bay who felt uncomfortable with men staying I wouldn't want my husband there, at the end of the day the patient comes first.

Abraid

I see a lot of protest about abortion rights in the US. And the situation wrt abortion is different - it's states actually passing legislation based on Supreme Court decisions, whereas in the UK the slow decimation of proper maternity services and degradation of patient care is invisible and not something the general public is aware of.

There's been no legislation, no big announcements of staff cuts, no debate, no fanfare. Its been invisible. No big marches have taken place, no lengthy TV discussions on news analysis programmes or discussion shows have highlighted the problem. It's not an ideological issue with pressure groups working to advance their own argument for or against adequate nursing care.

Women only notice the horror of it when it hits them straight between the eyes, and then if all goes well they return home relieved and pleased and it fades from memory until next time. It's not an issue that affects voters who will never use maternity services, whereas abortion is an issue close to the heart of millions who will never themselves have an abortion.

Yes, the US does maternity differently.
To become a midwife you must first become a registered nurse (a four year BSc degree) and then complete your midwifery training at an accredited programme, where you learn theory and practice. It's a postgrad degree therefore.

Midwives are not considered to be specialised nurses. They practice in hospitals in their own professional right and offer healthcare services to all women at all stages of life, though in practice many focus on ante and post natal/ reproductive healthcare. They have their own professional offices where they see patients just as obstetricians do, and have admitting privileges in hospitals just as OB/gyns do. OB/gyns provide reproductive and gynecological care for women, generally during the reproductive years. It's considered a primary care specialty like pediatrics, general/ family practice.

When you first suspect you're pregnant you go to a midwife or OB practice and you will continue to see the doctors or midwives practicing in test practice all the way to delivery. Someone from the practice will attend your delivery. There is continuity of care and your records are easily available. You will also do your follow up visit with the same doctors/ midwives. Some practices are made up if both doctors and midwives.

Nurses (RNs) have a BSc and are considered essential to delivery of hospital-based healthcare. The vast majority of maternity sections of hospitals have private rooms (1patient plus infant/s) or semi private (2 patients plus infant/s). Rooms have a WC and shower. In general, there are no communal wards any more in American hospitals, and there havent been for decades. Hospitals are staffed with RNs and LPNs (licensed practical nurse, a non degree training in basic healthcare delivery like personal care, taking vital signs, feeding patients). There are also Certified Nursing Assistants who perform more menial and less medical roles.

Hospital staff include medical 'residents' - doctors who have graduated from medical school and have moved on to their specialty. They assist the specialists and learn their trade. Midwives do a lot of practicum work in their training too.

The midwife practice I went to for my last pregnancy had a midwifery student in their practice who sat in on antenatal visits and was actually there with the midwife for my delivery. For my second last delivery, I had a final year resident and one nurse (RN) in the delivery room, with my doctor delivering twins in another room and in touch whenever the situation demanded. My doctor came in to see me and check all the notes while the resident was stitching me up. The other three deliveries had a variety of residents, my own doctors, and other students present, along with my nurse.

In the hospitals I have delivered in, I was assigned a dedicated RN to stay with me for her entire shift during labour, handing over to another nurse after that, and so in until discharge. I've had babies in two hospitals, with both private health insurance and on Medicaid, and have had both OB/gyn care and midwives. Both hospitals had the individual nurse protocol. I have enjoyed private and semi private rooms with no distinction of accommodation based on health insurance status.

I've had decent meals, the showers and loo were spotless, the hospital provided little baby clothes (vests), hospital gowns for me (you don't bring your own nightie to an Americal maternity experience), towels, sanitary/ maternity towels, perineal ice packs, perineal irrigation bottles, a breast pump if I wanted it, and a supply of nappies for the baby. Sheets were changed every morning. If I pressed the call button I had help within minutes. Labour partners could stay for a certain amount of time after delivery, night or day, but couldn't make a night of it. The midwife and doctors did their rounds at the crack of silly o'clock, and the hospital pediatrician followed to see the baby, pediatric residents in tow, with nurses doing vitals amd checking stitches and pain meds through the day and night.

Sorry that should be @Abra1t