Dad's overnight on postnatal wards - yay or nay?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Taking this debate off another thread so as not to derail

For me, unless you book and pay for a private room, overnights are for mums and their babies only.

No recovering woman should have to handle overnights with upwards of 4 stranger men sitting in chairs in close proximity to their bed.

Dad's there to care for the woman and baby is unacceptable - not their job. Not at the expense of the other women wanting privacy overnight.

No.

Well I'm glad I had my partner because I couldn't actually get up without being in a lot of pain due to my stitches, so my partner did the nappy changes and carried baby over to me for breast feeding. The staff could not have managed if mothers did not have their own help, sometimes I had to buzz twice for something. And although we all had our sections curtained off, I remember hearing a lady opposite me crying all night because her baby wouldn't latch and she was alone and stressed, was very sad to hear.

@User11122

In other countries they solve the problem of women needing nursing care after delivering a baby by employing trained nurses in the hospitals to provide the care the women and babies need.

Personally if you have partner then it's great. But hospital needs to be a safe place for other women there so on a ward it isn't just about one person, it's about all the women. Who could be alone, very scared and vulnerable and could have been in abusove relationship before. So need to think about everyone

@atoxk But no partners isn’t “thinking about everyone” is it? That dismisses completely all the women it would have or did help…. With a complete ban it doesn’t support everyone.

After a 45hr labour, where I had no sleep or food during this time, I could have really done with the support of having my partner there but unfortunately due to Covid regulations he had to go an hour after our little one was born.
I barely got time to have a quick shower, and eat the smallest bit (still wasn't feeling up for eating straight after birth). During this hour post birth I had to have stitches in theatre after a 3c degree tear. So in reality I birthed baby and then was basically taken straight to postnatal ward with baby on my own. As I'm not someone that finds asking for help easy and could see just how busy and overstretched all the staff there were I struggled through that night even though I could barely get up on my own due to pain from the tear, and had to share a room with a woman constantly tutting and huffing everytime my baby cried (her baby was a few days older so she'd had a bit of time to get used to feeding etc.) When I finally asked for help, after hanging out in a bathroom for a while with my baby to get away from the huffing woman, I was met with a someone saying if I really couldn't look after my baby then she would take my baby for a couple of hours but I really should be settling her myself.
It was probably the hardest night of my life and left me feeling like an awful mum already.

It seems the answer is to have a ward for ‘no partners staying’, either through choice or because a woman doesn’t have one?

Tbh I wonder if it corms down party to a "surgical ward" and none surgical ward. Mothers with disabilities that requires a carer would be in the former regardless of surgery. That side could also have a higher ratio of nurses etc as the patients are "hospitalised" for surgical reasons rather than labouring ones iyswim

That assumes the woman can eg get herself to the loo overnight, pick up her DC after a difficult section etc. There are lots of women who will tell you tales pf HCP not being able to respond to buzzers overnight etc due to the staffing situation.

Yes, I'm one or those women, but I STILL believe men should not be allowed on the ward overnight. I gave birth to my second child during covid and had an awful C section, yet it was so much better than having some random man staring at me between the crack in the curtain like on my first birth.

After 2 and a half days in labour and a delivery that ended in an emergency cesarean at 11.30pm, I would have given anything to have woken on the ward with my husband by my side. I ended up on my own, distressed and not knowing where my daughter was and staff that showed no care or emotion and offered no help at all while I spent the next 3 days in hospital.

No. Although I do think there should be overnight 'family maternity wards' for women who want a partner with them.

You say its "not their job" to look after their partner and baby, but whose job is it then? I had to stay in for 5 nights after my youngest was born, i developed sepsis during labour and baby was born with an infection and the only time i saw anyone during the night was when they came to give meds, i even had to take baby with me to shower!

Absolutely not. I was more than capable of the night on my own. Needed DH at home with older kids anyway.

The thought of 6 other men sleeping on the ward would have been awful.

That would be the ideal but as we know the NHS is nowhere near even functional, ideal is too much to hope for until it's massively overhauled.

I was not comfortable trying to master breastfeeding with the ward full of men. I kept closing my curtain for privacy but the staff kept opening them. I was on the verge of tears many times. I'll never forget that.

So what happens if your baby needs breastfeeding when you're out in public then? There might be men around 🤯

100% want my husband overnight. Would not want to leave my baby alone when I went to the toilet/shower and there aren’t enough Midwife’s to sit with your baby while you do this. I had c-sections with all of mine so could barely walk or lean over cot to pick up baby/get stuff out of my bag, my husband was there to help. Especially with my first I also needed the emotional support. It’s their baby too and it seems unnecessary to keep them away. What I do think should be imposed is much stricter rules for everyone on a maternity ward. For example lights out at a certain time, any music/videos have to be on headphones, no loud conversations, so more than 1 or 2 visitors at anyone time (during visiting hours). If men act appropriately they should be allowed to stay, if not then they should be asked to leave.

She said master breastfeeding. There’s a world of difference between the first few days when you’re exhausted from birth, wearing a hospital gown, bleeding, trying to feed a brand-new human who has no idea what to do either, when its mouth is too small anyway, plus you’re both covered in sweat because postnatal wards are hotter than Hades – and long-term feeding when you’re used to it and no longer have to be half-naked and weeping in the attempt.

I imagine the women opposing men being on the ward so much because it's a breach of their privacy during a vulnerable time will be the ones breast feeding non-discreetly in public regardless of who's watching because it's 'their right' (and of course it absolutely is). The majority of men are going to be way too concerned about their partner and baby to even acknowledge anyone else. They aren't there to get their kicks staring at other women, but if their is an issue like that then obviously they should be reported to staff.

Exactly. When I was in hospital my partner was there for me and our baby, he certainly wasn't staring at other women feeding and neither wrre any of the other men. Plus I was too concerned with looking after my newborn and getting used to being a new mother to care anyway.

I'm sure there are genuine feelings but personally i dont get it. When i had my 1st partners were allowed to stay (albeit in a chair!) But i felt fine so my husband went home and was back again first thing in the morning. There were 4 of us in my ward and all the other women had partners there, not once did i even give them a second thought! I dont see the difference for a lot of the reasons given i.e. trying to master breastfeeding between men being there at night or during the day, either way you will be trying to breastfeed, in fact staff are more likely to come round during the day opening curtains etc than they are at night when all lights are off anyway.

Exactly. When I was in hospital my partner was there for me and our baby, he certainly wasn't staring at other women feeding and neither wrre any of the other men.
Well lucky you. That certainly wasn't my experience. When I told a midwife that the man across from me kept staring at me, she LAUGHED at me, as though it was all in my head! I'm usually a very strong assertive person, but had just had a traumatic birth, couldn't get my baby to latch, had my boobs hanging out while I tried to figure out how on earth to breastfeed, was in agony post episiotomy, and did NOT need to have men peering round curtains at me from metres away. I can still see his face. I'd told my own husband to go home to get some sleep and because I felt it was inappropriate for him to be staying overnight among a group of vulnerable women - if only others extended the same courtesy. I remember one other couple kept on arguing and swearing at each other all night as well. I wish I'd known private rooms were an option.

Ironically, I was so glad to give birth the second time during covid so nobody could stay on the ward. Far far better experience, despite c section.

@Workingmother2014

...whose job is it then...?

It's the job of trained nurses to look after patients who have had major abdominal surgery or any kind of stitches or internal bleeding and who are in-patients in a hospital setting. The vast majority of women who have just given birth are going to be dealing with at least one of those.

I'm amazed that British women seem to not only accept the ghastly treatment meted out to them post partum but can't imagine there's a better way.

No one is saying they accept it, its the stark reality of the NHS at the moment.

It's the job of trained nurses to look after patients who have had major abdominal surgery or any kind of stitches or internal bleeding and who are in-patients in a hospital setting. The vast majority of women who have just given birth are going to be dealing with at least one of those.

The problem is there are not enough to physically go around. So when you ask ‘whose job is it’ the answer is - it’s the job of people who don’t physically exist now. So, that sort of means no-one’s job at the moment in a lot of places, although like any medical setting these days some places have more staff than others so individual experiences will differ. We can all sit here and do the ‘should’ but that will achieve and change nothing, and as I have said it will likely get worse all round, not just maternity.

It’s a double edge sword, some women will go home and not stay when they should because of men on the ward and feeling uncomfortable; and others will go home and not stay when they should because of no men being allowed on the ward and not receiving the assistance that partners are now having to replace. Some of these women will have an adverse event at home and the outcome will be lucky for some and not for others (at least physically being in hospital means close access to ICU if needed, not having to wait for ambulance etc). No easy answers for this and certainly no fixes on the horizon.