Dad's overnight on postnatal wards - yay or nay?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Taking this debate off another thread so as not to derail

For me, unless you book and pay for a private room, overnights are for mums and their babies only.

No recovering woman should have to handle overnights with upwards of 4 stranger men sitting in chairs in close proximity to their bed.

Dad's there to care for the woman and baby is unacceptable - not their job. Not at the expense of the other women wanting privacy overnight.

It's not "a couple of others", it's most people who have been through a complicated birth and were unable to look after their baby on their own, in a hospital with inadequate staff. We are not being listened to by posters like you, we are just being dismissed as "a couple of people".

It really seems like people are arguing about different things here. I think most people who say they needed their partner there would be willing to not have that if the hospital was going to actually going to look after them. But the point is, they won't. That one person wouldn't be put in a private room. So they do need something, unless serious systematic change happens with how hospitals are run.

On the other side you have people saying "so you just think partners should stay rather than hospitals improve". But nobody is saying that. They're saying partners being allowed is better than nothing whilst hospitals AREN'T improving.

No no no. They sit in chairs and snore and wake the women up. They should have to leave at 9pm.

@Sleepless1096

Your 'proposal' would never happen in a million years for loads of reasons. So not much point saying any more about it.

Having my partner there would have benefitted me a lot. But I’m against it because I know not everyone has a good partner. And I don’t want those sort of men around me or other women.

Also, I can remember hobbling to the toilet on my second night in the hospital after a C-section, I think I was only just able to get myself out of bed and had a vest top and knickers on and wasn’t able to put any other clothing on… And I had to walk past a man I don’t know who was sat outside the ward toilets with his arms folded - doing absolutely fuck all next to his partners bed - watching me.

@BloodAndFire I work in safeguarding and domestic abuse actually, women don't need to be safeguarded from all men.
If so how do you go about day to day business? Can you go to a supermarket or does that require safeguarding in case there are scary men in there.
I don't want any strangers looking at me whilst I try and feed my new baby, man or woman.
If it was a partner from a same sex relationship would you have the same issues and thoughts? Or is ok because the partner is a women? If there preference is female surely that is the same and causes was much anxiety.
Hopefully none of you are having boys having to grow up in this man hating world.

Read the horrifying account from the woman who works on these wards a couple of pages back. A large number of men are abusive to their partners and to other women, eat her food, talk over her and answer the midwives' questions for her, open the curtains where other women are, force their partners to have sex with them ON THE WARD.

She has seen all these things herself. It backs up my horrifying experience when I had my youngest. These men are not providing emotional support, they are selfish, abusive, often violent wankers.

Oh, I thought this was a discussion board...

Is that not the case 🤔? Is your viewpoint the only acceptable one?

It should never be an option. Women deserve to feel safe and have privacy. And if we allow men to fill the gap in care, it will become the norm. We need proper care from trained professionals.

I really hope you don't work with women who are at the receiving end of domestic abuse, based on your last couple of posts.

I also frankly don't believe you 'work in safeguarding' (what does that even mean?) when you earlier insulted and denigrated women sharing their horrifying experiences with the comment:

oh yes i forgot all men are perverted misogynist rapists

I don't generally go to the supermarket in my nightdress, in paper pants, bleeding heavily, on morphine and with a catheter hanging out of me, leaking breast milk everywhere - do you?

And I do have a son and hope he grows up to respect women a lot more than you do.

It should never be an option. Women deserve to feel safe and have privacy. And if we allow men to fill the gap in care, it will become the norm. We need proper care from trained professionals.

Yes, we do. But in the absence of that, do the people who need help not matter, compared to people who want privacy?

This encapsulates the issue for me

If you read the posts from women working on these wards, you will see that the majority of these men are as far from 'helpful' as it's possible to be.

And yes, the rights of women to privacy, safety and dignity do outweigh the fact that other women want their male partners with them.

I think in hospitals, privacy is vital. I was one of the mums that needed help. But no, that should never mean men on wards overnight.

@BloodAndFire @RecordsTurning

I suppose in the same way we need to remember not all men are disgusting oafs, not all men are decent and helpful souls either. And I did say upthread, whatever the rule is needs to be consistent - it wasn't on our ward - we only had one man allowed to stay, he didn't behave too badly really but it was a real "one rule for one..." scenario.

I think the only bad behaviour I saw was from the teenagers with the private room opposite. Didn't bother mentioning it upthread as I was digressing but one midwife went in to try and get them to look after the baby who had been placed outside the room again in the corridor and she was giving him head. I don't know if she was being forced to mind you but yeah, not really on.

Post-natal wards should all be private rooms as is standard in most developed countries. That way partners can stay for those who want/ need them, those who don't can have privacy, everyone can have peace, and women who've just lost babies won't be shoved on wards with women with their newborns. So this is the wrong question OP: there shouldn't be open plan post-natal wards to begin with. New mothers deserve more respect.

It should never be an option. Women deserve to feel safe and have privacy. And if we allow men to fill the gap in care, it will become the norm. We need proper care from trained professionals.

This. Absolutely this.

You are in a hospital surrounded by medical professionals, what did you need your DH there for that you/the hospital staff couldn't cope with overnight?

When I was there, after a C section I physically could not lift my babies up from their cots to comfort or feed. Average response time from ringing the bell for assistance to a nurse showing up was 1-2 hours. So unless you want your newborn crying all night in hunger, you need someone with you who will do that basic task for you.

So you agree. To fuck the disabled?

You are absolutely wrong. I am disabled. I was left crying unable to pick my baby up or get out of bed because there were no HCP available. I was wet having wet myself. So yes I did need my partner there.

father’s need to be with the baby at all times. Mother’s may not be physically able to do all care or follow baby everywhere in hospital. If the facilities are inadequate for proper parental supervision, then the facilities need updating.

I would never leave a child with hospital staff without a guardian except during surgery. To be honest I’m not thrilled with the surgical gap but understand sterility and that some people can’t handle the process and it is too risky to leave that to chance.

If you read the posts from women working on these wards, you will see that the majority of these men are as far from 'helpful' as it's possible to be.

I have read those, but this is quite dismissive of the fact that I'm clearly talking about situations where the man WAS needed to help his partner, and did.

And yes, the rights of women to privacy, safety and dignity do outweigh the fact that other women want their male partners with them.

So incredibly one sided. That's not what I asked. I asked if the rights of those women to privacy and the feeling of safety outweighs the need of other women for help can only currently be provided by partners. Not "women who want their male partners with them" for no good reason.

Why are you so averse to considering people in that situation?

I was in a private room. My partner wasn't allowed to stop and I wasn't cared for. There needs to be allowances for both if there is not enough HCP.

I never want another woman to go through the first night like I had to. It would have been solved by my DP being allowed to stay with me in my side room.

The solution is adequate healthcare. Not men in women's spaces.

It's not "a couple of others", it's most people who have been through a complicated birth and were unable to look after their baby on their own, in a hospital with inadequate staff. We are not being listened to by posters like you, we are just being dismissed as "a couple of people".

Most women want single sexed spaces, especially in hospitals and it’s only a tiny amount of women who think men should be allowed on the wards.

Speak to any nurse or midwife and they will agree that men should not be staying overnight on a maternity ward.

It’s literally a few hours and most partners cannot help much anyway.

The majority of mothers can look after their own newborn baby which sleeps most of the time anyway for a few hours.

What about all of the women in this situation that have DCs at home how do you think they cope without their DH there?