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Original poster

Having a girl will divide us

476 replies

CrunchyCrump · 15/01/2022 06:52

I realise this is going to polarise a lot of people and I’m not sure what I’m looking for by posting, everything feels pretty dark at the moment so reaching out perhaps.

I’m expecting a DD in Spring after a DS. Because of my husbands religion, which I don’t share, she isn’t going to have the same freedoms in her choices that I’ve had. Having to marry into the religion for instance or conforming to religious dress.

Yes this was a discussion before we even married, but I’m now struggling with the lived version of an abstract thought. There’s no wiggle room either, if she doesn’t follow her father beliefs he will be punished for it.

I’ve spoken to DH, he does understand to an extent but when I ask for compromise he can’t meet me halfway on this because it’s so clear in his religion.

I’m so sad, it feels like this baby will cause us to separate and I don’t want that but at the same time I don’t know how I can accept a future where she doesn’t have a choice.

It’s my fault completely I accept that, I feel like I’ve screwed all of our lives up but I just can’t see a way forward.

OP posts:
ballsdeep · 15/01/2022 11:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lemonlettuce · 15/01/2022 11:43

OP I’m sorry this thread has been derailed so terribly. Whatever useful replies you received I hope you can use them to try and find a good and respectful solution that works for you and your kids.

ParsleySageRosemary · 15/01/2022 11:43

@Lemonlettuce

Everyone always harps on about us poor oppressed exploited Muslim women. We don’t need or want your fake superior sympathy. A lot of genuine people here have posted trying to explain that what the OP is going through seems to be more culture based than direct from the religion. But oh no this must be discounted because us brainwashed head covering Muslim women have no idea what we are talking about. This would never ever happen with any other religious community. I can’t imagine the same replies even passing people’s lips if this was a discussion about an Orthodox Jew wanting his daughters/wife to cover or wear wigs once they were married. But it seems as per usual, Islam and Muslims are fair game.
Afghanistan.

Women are all fair game - fair prey actually - to men if they cannot protect themselves.

godmum56 · 15/01/2022 11:43

@toomuchlaundry

Can I ask why some women choose to wear a head covering when not forced to, as they are choosing to wear an item of clothing which is a symbol of oppression for many women
I am not muslim but I know that women who choose to wear a headscarf will do it as a sign of their faith...like wearing a cross as jewellery. In the largest city near me its not uncommon to see women wearing tight jeans and skimpy tops and a headscarf....symbols are difficult things and open to interpretation.....
LittleBearPad · 15/01/2022 11:44

My point is- have they been oppressed by a male or have chosen this life for themselves?

Who knows?

Back in the day being sent to a nunnery was a punishment for women. Not all women chose to be nuns.

Fundamentally the issue is of choice and the cultural - not religious - norms that OP’s DH thinks are mandated are that women have fewer rights than men. That’s not ok and it doesn’t just revolve around head coverings as Op seems to think.

liveforsummer · 15/01/2022 11:45

I’ve spoken with my husband and the only differences between DS/DD would be the marriage/covering.

I promise you these will categorically not be the only difference. Your daughter will be viewed wholly differently. Tbh if he gets 'punished' for letting his daughter have a normal life and make her own choices then so be it. A sacrifice a parent should be willing to make for a child is it not?

IamfromBarcelona · 15/01/2022 11:45

Haven’t RTFT

But surely this will really be your daughter’s decision in the end?

She will be brought up with a religious father and non-religious mum.

She may choose the religion for herself and be happy to follow its teachings, or not.

But this is a problem for many years hence, and who knows how circumstances may have changed by then.

Mischance · 15/01/2022 11:46

Religion is so very divisive. A real blight on society.

Whatever made you marry this man when you knew that it would come back to bite you and your children?

Your OH being "punished" (what does this mean?) is a mere nothing compared with your DD being repressed throughout her life.

Quite ridiculous.

LittleBearPad · 15/01/2022 11:48

@IamfromBarcelona

Haven’t RTFT

But surely this will really be your daughter’s decision in the end?

She will be brought up with a religious father and non-religious mum.

She may choose the religion for herself and be happy to follow its teachings, or not.

But this is a problem for many years hence, and who knows how circumstances may have changed by then.

Apart from the insidious way she is treated as she grows up that tells her she is less than her brother

And for all the OP’s blithe confidence that apostasy is just an admin task, in certain countries it’s a serious crime.

Eustonhalf · 15/01/2022 11:48

I think you absolutely can be happy and free in your faith. The problem is when its demands are being visited on a young person whose mother enjoys all the unfettered freedoms of living outside the faith while she will be expected to live a different life that will certainly appear more limited than her mother's by comparison. And this awkward, confusing situation is happening because the OP wanted what she wanted and didn't bother reflecting seriously on the kind of life her daughter would have until now. She's uncomfortable with it for her daughter and doesn't see it as a positive. And she's her mother so her view is crucial. What a world of tension lies ahead.

liveforsummer · 15/01/2022 11:48

@Mischance it means not being able to get into heaven. Basically punishing his own child for his own perceived benefit

Eustonhalf · 15/01/2022 11:49

The thread title should perhaps be "We will divide her".

MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 15/01/2022 11:52

Hello everyone - can we appeal to you all to keep this thread on track? Derailing it won't help the OP. Thank you.

DarkDarkNight · 15/01/2022 11:56

@CrunchyCrump

Yes it is Islam and yes I’m fully aware there is a multitude of ways to follow. However there is still the paragraph saying hair should be covered, this is an honest question if anyone does have any examples where this is translated/interpreted differently it would really help me out
Why does there need to be another interpretation? If your husband has been brought up believing women should cover their hair is he going to start believing a different interpretation now if this belief is ingrained?

What would happen if you said I don’t want our daughter to cover her hair. Do you get equal weighting or does what he say goes?

I would not want a child of either sex brought up like this. Would you have been happier with all boys so you never had to face the reality of how misogynistic your husband is?

I think you’re burying your head in the sand and just hoping your husband will mellow. But he may not, he may get stricter and more controlling than even what he has said to you.

Hangthetowels · 15/01/2022 11:57

I could never let a daughter have less freedoms than myself. I'd leave and sacrifice some of my happiness perhaps to give her the equality and opportunities that she's deserves in 2021.

Theimpossiblegirl · 15/01/2022 11:57

If you're hoping he'll change you're taking a big risk. This is basic human rights stuff, no way would I be raising my daughters to accept oppression as the natural order, but my sons to be the oppressors. Natural predisposition my arse.
You need to save your children from this life.

Kanaloa · 15/01/2022 11:57

@liveforsummer

I’ve spoken with my husband and the only differences between DS/DD would be the marriage/covering.

I promise you these will categorically not be the only difference. Your daughter will be viewed wholly differently. Tbh if he gets 'punished' for letting his daughter have a normal life and make her own choices then so be it. A sacrifice a parent should be willing to make for a child is it not?

Agree. It’s a sacrifice I would make for my kids to live their lives as the people they are, not extensions of me.

As for the ‘oh it will only affect her in terms of the marriage and head covering.’

Firstly, the message you’re sending to her (she is different from her brother and her refusing to conform will mean her father is punished) is another way it will affect her.

And secondly, what if she falls in love outside her religion? What if she’s a lesbian? What if she doesn’t want to get married because she wants to become a scholar and live a life dedicated to academics and is happy being ‘married to her work?’ Or she invents the next Facebook and is more interested in marrying someone who shares her interest in tech than her father’s religion?

There are so many ways this will affect her. And for the record I would say the exact same if it was any other religion. If you choose to use head coverings/only marry within your own religion that’s fine, and it’s your choice. If you’re forced to do it by the threat that your father needs you to because he’ll be ‘punished’ if you don’t obey but not your brother, that’s oppressive.

Theimpossiblegirl · 15/01/2022 11:58

@Theimpossiblegirl

If you're hoping he'll change you're taking a big risk. This is basic human rights stuff, no way would I be raising my daughters to accept oppression as the natural order, but my sons to be the oppressors. Natural predisposition my arse. You need to save your children from this life.
*nor my sons...
Meraas · 15/01/2022 11:58

@Gardeningcreature

Asi1 thank you . You have proven my point Wink No intelligent reasoning at all. Just mud slinging, no counter argument so what do you do……..accuse me of reading the Daily Mail Hmm
What so you expect when you provoke Muslim women by saying they are scum in their religion?

You don’t want to help, you want to goad.

toomuchlaundry · 15/01/2022 11:58

Muslim women in Afghanistan and many other countries don’t have much freedom all in the name of religion.

I also don’t approve of any women being oppressed or being treated as lesser by any form of religion or culture

Italiangreyhound · 15/01/2022 11:59

He has a choice. There are milder versions of all religions.he could compromise. He might lose his parents over this bit better than losing a wife, daughter and son.

Are you in the UK?

Meraas · 15/01/2022 12:00

@milkieway

Wow this is really sad Can you imagine how she'll feel at 16 if her choices mean that her dad doesn't go to heaven because she doesn't marry someone in the same faith etc???? Your taking away all her freedom of choice from the get go because of that - that's no "choice" to give your child - and being brought up with all this looming over her and you it's likely to fracture your family anyway either way
Why are you making shit up?

There is nothing that says you go to heaven or hell based on your children’s choices, or anyone else's.

Honestly, so many stupid posts.

Kanaloa · 15/01/2022 12:00

And also Allah is merciful. It’s specifically said that he is forgiving/merciful/all encompassing mercy etc etc. So why would he refuse entry to heaven to a good man because that man’s daughter didn’t wear a head scarf?

liveforsummer · 15/01/2022 12:01

@Meraas it's because OP has stated that specifically as the reason her daughter must follow the religion. Of course it's crap unfortunately OP doesn't understand this

jungleIP · 15/01/2022 12:01

@Lemonlettuce

Some of the replies on this thread are really disheartening. No wonder Islamophobia and anti-Muslim prejudice is so rife in the world.

My religion is neither ‘bullshit’ or ‘ridiculous’ thank you very much. People can indeed be either of those 2 things but to conflate it across a whole faith which encompasses 1.6 billion people across the globe shows me that you are the one being ridiculous @ballsdeep

No but
A) not all Muslims do the tradition things like head coverings. It's a choice, not damning a whole religion

B) having actually lived in a controlling, regressive religious household it's deeply unpleasant

C) religious people will equally call other religions and atheism bullshit etc. Not all, obviously. People are like that, period. Everyone thinks their beliefs are right, and everyone else is either wasting their life believing fairytales, or going to hell for not believing