Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Having a girl will divide us

476 replies

CrunchyCrump · 15/01/2022 06:52

I realise this is going to polarise a lot of people and I’m not sure what I’m looking for by posting, everything feels pretty dark at the moment so reaching out perhaps.

I’m expecting a DD in Spring after a DS. Because of my husbands religion, which I don’t share, she isn’t going to have the same freedoms in her choices that I’ve had. Having to marry into the religion for instance or conforming to religious dress.

Yes this was a discussion before we even married, but I’m now struggling with the lived version of an abstract thought. There’s no wiggle room either, if she doesn’t follow her father beliefs he will be punished for it.

I’ve spoken to DH, he does understand to an extent but when I ask for compromise he can’t meet me halfway on this because it’s so clear in his religion.

I’m so sad, it feels like this baby will cause us to separate and I don’t want that but at the same time I don’t know how I can accept a future where she doesn’t have a choice.

It’s my fault completely I accept that, I feel like I’ve screwed all of our lives up but I just can’t see a way forward.

OP posts:
Regularsizedrudy · 15/01/2022 10:33

I know plenty of Muslim women who live free independent lives, I also know some who don’t and it’s not because of their religion it’s because their are controlling misogynistic men in their lives using religion as an excuse. Like your husband. He is the issue here not his faith.

RenGreen · 15/01/2022 10:36

I grew up in a city with a large Muslim population. I can say the Hijab and Niqab came much later in my teen years. Before this people would dress culturally for example a Punjabi Muslim from Pakistan would wear clothes like a Punjabi Sikh from India. None of my Muslim friends from lots of different countries wore Hijab at school. It wasn’t the norm even as teenagers. I feel like Saudi Arabian and Middle Eastern cultural dress has been chosen as Islamic dress but I feel it’s not what is required. It’s all down to interpretation and trends.

Branleuse · 15/01/2022 10:38

What country are you in @CrunchyCrump

Kennykenkencat · 15/01/2022 10:39

@CrunchyCrump

It’s hard to explain as it’s taken a long time for me to understand it and I still don’t fully but women and men are treated differently but more based on how we’re predisposed naturally.
What does that even mean? How are we naturally predisposed?
Ddot · 15/01/2022 10:39

I know a woman who as a child went on holiday and came home married. She was strong so went to the authorities and had the marriage annulled. Her family have not spoken to her since. Another woman I worked with had been forced to marry her cousin who had anger issues due to a head injury. She was told she could divorce as soon as he settled in uk and then she could Marry who she liked. Divorce came through family had next husband already picked out.

user33323 · 15/01/2022 10:40

I'd say it is cultural, just as most Christians are not fundamental and accept a lot of the Bible is outdated. Most Muslims do not follow every written teaching explicitly. I have muslim close family members, Muslim next door neighbours and Muslim friends. All follow Islam, go to mosque etc but none of the girls or teenagers/young adults wear head coverings except for mosque. One family will all eat pork and drink alcohol, others have family members who do. This includes two Muslim parents and one Mulism parent families. Do you know any other families who have a more liberal and modern approach to what is written in the Qur'an? If not, find them!

Maireas · 15/01/2022 10:41

How strange to berate posters on here for being "uninformed" and blaming the "UK media", when you yourself seem strangely uninformed about the religion you have chosen to raise your children in.

Pesimistic · 15/01/2022 10:41

Why could he marry out of the reams of what's expected in his religion? Why are his views more important than yours and your daughters well being? Surely he can't take his religion thst seriously if he hasn't married someone with the same beliefs and views on the the world as he has

MamaGaia · 15/01/2022 10:41

@Ddot

I know a woman who as a child went on holiday and came home married. She was strong so went to the authorities and had the marriage annulled. Her family have not spoken to her since. Another woman I worked with had been forced to marry her cousin who had anger issues due to a head injury. She was told she could divorce as soon as he settled in uk and then she could Marry who she liked. Divorce came through family had next husband already picked out.
Again, that’s not Islam but culture.

This is the issue - it’s not the religion itself that’s the problem, it’s the men who twist it because they can’t bear the idea of women being independent.

Just10moreminutesplease · 15/01/2022 10:43

Islam is a beautiful religion and it doesn’t dictate that women cover their hair. Many people choose to, which is absolutely fine. Many choose not to. Again this is fine.

What’s not fine is forcing your child one way or the other. It will be her hair and neither you or your husband has the right to demand that she cover it or leave it bare.

It astounds me that you don’t know that Muslims interpret hijab in different ways.

The passage used in favour of hair coverings can (and is) interpreted in so many different ways! Some people believe that it simply assumes both men and women will be wearing head coverings because of the heat, and it is those that women are told to pull over their breasts/chest (so basically, dress modestly). While others believe it is meant to mean “cover your hair and breasts” specifically.

This passage also talks about covering beauty which is interpreted by different people in a huge range of ways. Some think it means just don’t dress too flashily (the translation of beauty suggests adornments outside of what is naturally apparent… I.e you might have beautiful eyes but don’t need to hide them). While some think everything including the eyes should be covered.

Hertsgirl10 · 15/01/2022 10:44

So what’s the punishment?

What’s this fully grown man gonna do when his daughter doesn’t conform and wants to marry a person that she loves, like he did?

I wouldn’t even want my son growing up with this way of thinking, let alone waiting for my daughter to maybe be punished by him.

Musmerian · 15/01/2022 10:44

@CrunchyCrump

It’s hard to explain as it’s taken a long time for me to understand it and I still don’t fully but women and men are treated differently but more based on how we’re predisposed naturally.
‘Predisposed naturally’ seriously? It sounds to me as though you are swallowing fallacious arguments. Don’t be a passive doormat- the potential fallout of this is unthinkable. It’s the 21st century in the UK.
Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/01/2022 10:47

I’ve seen this is now trending which is what I didn’t want given how biased and uninformed many peoples views are

I mean this gently, but isn't that a little ironic given that you've married with so little understanding of what you were taking on?

Unfortunately so many of your hopes ("it won't affect her until she's older" and all the rest) are just that - hopes - and you seem to ignore the cultural pressure which may happen in the name of "preparation"

Since your DH has been quite explicit that he won't compromise, you'll have a choice to make sooner or later; here's hoping that you're able to make it before too much damage is done to your precious daughter

Kennykenkencat · 15/01/2022 10:48

[quote CrunchyCrump]@BurntToastAgain it’s not cultural when it’s explicitly stated in their text that women should cover their hair. Not sure how that can be misinterpreted?[/quote]
Not 100% familiar with the text but I don’t believe it states exactly what the hair should be covered with.
In which case wouldn’t a wig be ok. I know that the wig route is acceptable in Judaism.

knittingaddict · 15/01/2022 10:50

@CrunchyCrump

It’s hard to explain as it’s taken a long time for me to understand it and I still don’t fully but women and men are treated differently but more based on how we’re predisposed naturally.
Really? You buy this argument that women should be treated as lesser because there's something inherent in being female. Is it because women need to be pure and if you let them do what they like they will always default to filthy whore? I don't think that obviously, but it appears that some religions do.

Men get more freedom because of what? Their inherent maleness.

I'm not stupid, I know this exists, but I don't understand women from outside of that religion not rejecting it.

It's outright misogyny wrapped up in religion. Too late now, but I couldn't have married someone knowing that they had this view of women.

JanuaryBluehoo · 15/01/2022 10:50

Ren Green absolutely

The has been a huge push by Saudi to impose its religion's into people and how it does things ie hugely highly Conservative.
At the same time there is also A modernisation going on within Islam and many interpretations are becoming more diverse and "inclusive" ie letting women and men pray together and people who are homosexual etc

Viviennemary · 15/01/2022 10:52

I don't think you can be blamed for making the choices you'vd made. But in the future you will have different choices to make. You are now more aware of the implications of you and your children being bound by rules you don't agree with. I think that will be very hard.

knittingaddict · 15/01/2022 10:52

Also parents have murdered their daughters over this crap.

Schmoozer · 15/01/2022 10:54

What a nightmare
Is your husband aware of your concerns - would he sacrifice his family for fear of his extended family not being happy ??

Gardeningcreature · 15/01/2022 10:54

Who cares what some ancient book written by misogynists says?
Op, did your dh specifically tell you hat he believed in before we’re in a serious relationship with him? Did he tell you that if I have children the way I bring up boys will be fundamentally different to the way I bring up girls?
If he did then what on earth do you expect anyone on here to tell you?
If he didn’t then that is different. Again though only sensible advice is to leave.

Gardeningcreature · 15/01/2022 10:56

I also think it’s ‘odd’ or stupid would be another word to marry outside of your very strict religion. The dh is at fault here.

gogohm · 15/01/2022 10:58

Leave him! Do not give him his name, do not compromise. No child should be limited in their freedoms due to their sex, or in the name of religion.

JudgeJ · 15/01/2022 11:00

@GlitterSquid

Fuck that. But then you married into this seemingly awful religion (whatever it is), you did know if the women within it were oppressed and as such your daughter may have to carry that burden.
Our daughter was in a very serious relationship with a great young man from a similar religion but I was so relieved when it came to an end, even though she was very hurt. Even though he lived a life very similar to ours at the time, not following many of the strict rules of his religion, I was worried that in later life he would come under a great deal of pressure from his religion to conform and she would be even unhappier. He eventually married a woman from his religion and he now conforms far more.
Blossom64265 · 15/01/2022 11:05

[quote CrunchyCrump]@always2tired thank you so much for sharing your experience, I can’t tell you how grateful I am. I’m hoping for this exactly if I’m honest. I’ve spoken with my husband and the only differences between DS/DD would be the marriage/covering.[/quote]
That is still discrimination against your daughter. You don’t have to be quiet or respectful about anything that teaches your daughter that she needs to behave differently than her brother

MumToBe1980 · 15/01/2022 11:05

[quote CrunchyCrump]@YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators thank you for sharing your experiences, I’m in a similar situation but I can the older children and it’s similar to how you’ve said. I think being pregnancy isn’t helping me at the moment and I’m catastrophising unnecessarily[/quote]
Op the language you use suggests that you too are also oppressed at an extent. Do you have family close by to support you? What are their thoughts on this. Personally I would never allow my dd to be treated differently to my son, interestingly you were not concerned about your son growing up to hold such outdated views of women. Please be careful though, are you from the UK originally? Could you return home? Is the father likely to take the children from you? Are you at risk if you leave?