Husband won’t agree to third baby

[Emily135]

Hello,

I’m posting on here as I am struggling to come to terms with the fact that my husband doesn’t want any more children.

I have always wanted three children and my two are 4 and 2 now. For the last 6 months (or more) I have been asking my husband to have another baby. We’ve had arguments, sensible conversations on a regular basis. He just won’t budge and I’m feeling really depressed about it.

He also says that if I fell pregnant accidentally he’d be really happy and would love the baby as much as he does the other two! Financially we’d be more than ok with another child, our house is plenty big enough. He just says he doesn’t need another, but I do. I feel it’s really unfair!

I have told him that I’ll always want another baby and I will always regret not doing, but he would never regret having one! Which he agrees with.

I feel like there’s no point to this post really, just wanted advice and to know if anyone else had been through this situation! Xxx

@RosesAndHellebores

Interesting fishandchips that you think women can move on easily from one relationship to another to fulfil their desires for children. I seem to recall that the vows we made before God were: for the avoidance of sin, the procreation of children and for mutual comfort.

How very interesting that you seem to think that a profound spiritual bond can be so easily broken and that there may be no damage to existing children if they are or that they should be deprived of full siblings or a stable home.

Marriage is not and should not be a casual thing. There are of course fundamental reasons why a marriage should and may end but the desire for a child or another child should not be an isolated reason.

Rather than emotionally grind their partner down in the hope he relents and genuinely agrees with another child then yep, much better to find someone who wants the same ie another child.

@Bizawit

I mean not having a child won't directly kill you the way starvation or a severe bowel impaction and obstruction would but ok, you crack on.

[quote Boogiethebeat]@Bizawit

I mean not having a child won't directly kill you the way starvation or a severe bowel impaction and obstruction would but ok, you crack on.[/quote]
Clearly you know nothing about mental health. But yeh, you “crack on”.

@Bizawit so men who don't want more children should have them rather than the woman seek support?

@Bizawit

Actually, I've worked with vulnerable people (children and adults) my whole career.
Not having a child does not directly cause death they way the other two examples may despite your woeful misinformation. Please read proerly as I've started "directly" in both posts now, a point you seemed to miss. However, if you are implying that a person may suicide or self-harm (inaccurate to refer to 'commit suicide' now ofc) due to severe and complex mental health issues then that individual is absolutely in need of, and entitled to, professional support and assistance in addressing the issues they have. Unsure where you think I've said anything to the contrary.
You thinking it's acceptable to resign ourselves to the fact that childlessness (or being childfree) makes a reasonable cause for someone to be so unwell that they take their own lives shows that it's you who knows nothing about mental health.
But yes, I'll crack on in my educated profession and advocating for women to be more than incubators and baby factories absolutely at the whim of apparently "visceral" biology Your extremism is actually quite concerning but I doubt you'd see the issue with it going by previous posts.

I fail to see why" his views trump yours!" The fact is you would like another baby .This is natural ,and some years ago would probably have happened anyway with less reliable forms of contraception. No matter how many babies you have ,some people crave more .We can all tell you to give up the dream ,buy a puppy or whatever but this is about your feelings ffs! Can you get over to him how you feel ,Really explain where you are coming from? The problem here is he is set against it while you are wanting another! I think in time you would be resentful .Maybe try Counselling and talk about it in depth with a trained counsellor.

[quote Boogiethebeat]@Bizawit

Actually, I've worked with vulnerable people (children and adults) my whole career.
Not having a child does not directly cause death they way the other two examples may despite your woeful misinformation. Please read proerly as I've started "directly" in both posts now, a point you seemed to miss. However, if you are implying that a person may suicide or self-harm (inaccurate to refer to 'commit suicide' now ofc) due to severe and complex mental health issues then that individual is absolutely in need of, and entitled to, professional support and assistance in addressing the issues they have. Unsure where you think I've said anything to the contrary.
You thinking it's acceptable to resign ourselves to the fact that childlessness (or being childfree) makes a reasonable cause for someone to be so unwell that they take their own lives shows that it's you who knows nothing about mental health.
But yes, I'll crack on in my educated profession and advocating for women to be more than incubators and baby factories absolutely at the whim of apparently "visceral" biology Your extremism is actually quite concerning but I doubt you'd see the issue with it going by previous posts.[/quote]
Whatever. I don’t think this ‘conversation’ between the two of us is going anywhere.

Given the total lack of empathy and human understanding expressed in your original post- where you trivialised the desire to have children, and called it ‘selfish’- I’m not inclined to be impressed by your professional credentials working with vulnerable people.

And I certainly don’t think women are incubators or baby factories - no idea where you get that idea from 🙄. What I do believe is that women’s desires/ choices/ wants/ needs in relation to reproduction should be taken seriously and not trivialised/ disparaged.

@StormcloakNord

The person who doesn't want to have a baby always trumps the person who does. It's not buying furniture, it's a bloody baby.

Don't trick your husband and have an "accidental pregnancy" though because that would be unbelievably stupid.

This

@Boogiethebeat

I’m not inclined to be impressed by your professional credentials working with vulnerable people.

Nor am I with your absence of ability to form any argument beyond "whatever". Sounds more like a teenager who's not remotely emotionally mature enough to understand the implications of such doctrines desperately lacking in critical thought. Thankfully I don't need your endorsement to know I perform well in my vocation.

Isn't "Give me children or I die" quite a significant quote in The Handmaid's Tale? The irony.

I'm also not the one lacking in empathy either. I'm actually disabled and have very reluctantly chosen to remain childfree rather than risk passing my hereditary disease on to any biological offspring (or actually risk dyinging in pregancy or childbirth which is a very real possibility). Astoundingly, I'm still alive so far.

Ironic that you mention visceral biology and the drive to have children when the very purpose of this, even at a cellular level, is ensuring representation of your genes within the wider gene pool and disrupting the procreation efforts of competitors. It doesn't get more selfish than that.

Still no one's entitled to children and still childlessness has never directly killed anyone.

@Bizawit your questions could be used to justify people getting their own way in other ways
E.g men’s desire for sex

1. it is trivialised - it may be so but there is no denying it is a desire or yearning (of both sexes)
2. that desire to have sex have equal footing for both parties - of course it does, it is an affirmative action (as is having kids) which requires both parties to consent 3)that a woman’s desire not to have sex trumps the desire of the mans to have it - it absolutely does as it is an action which is to be taken therefore both parties need to be in agreement - if one says no, it doesn’t happen

The parallels are there - it may enrich one parties life to the detriment of the other. It may enrich both lives but the status quo is the basis for the decision

I've seen the planet excuse so much on these mumsnet threads. All the people who seem to think that having a third child is bad for the planet have misunderstood how population growth and climate change works.

It's pretty universally agreed that biggest two things that will help climate change are technology and government policy.

The carbon footprint of our children will not be the same as ours, as technology and policies improve our carbon footprint will grow smaller and smaller, as will our children's and our children's children. Also Hans Rosling I think explains how the world's population won't exceed a certain amount.

It's not as simple as "if you have two, one or none children that you are "helping" the planet". Don't carry the weight of the world on your shoulders OP, when making this decision. I hope you and your husband can reach a decision that works for you both.

[quote Sittingonabench]@Bizawit your questions could be used to justify people getting their own way in other ways
E.g men’s desire for sex

1. it is trivialised - it may be so but there is no denying it is a desire or yearning (of both sexes)
2. that desire to have sex have equal footing for both parties - of course it does, it is an affirmative action (as is having kids) which requires both parties to consent 3)that a woman’s desire not to have sex trumps the desire of the mans to have it - it absolutely does as it is an action which is to be taken therefore both parties need to be in agreement - if one says no, it doesn’t happen

The parallels are there - it may enrich one parties life to the detriment of the other. It may enrich both lives but the status quo is the basis for the decision[/quote]
I don’t think you understood my post and I don’t at all accept / understand the parallel.

I have been in the opposite situation, my dh has always wanted 3 but after 2 tricky pregnancies with loads of postnatal complications I shut up shop. He raised it a few times though and said he would respect my choice ultimately but would never feel fulfilled. I gave it a lot of thought over a 2 year period and decided to take the plunge. I am expecting my 3rd and dh is hands on as always but I am taking a battering and there will be absolutely no more children. I have placenta praevia and will not put myself through this again.

I don’t think you understood my post and I don’t at all accept / understand the parallel.

I think the parallel is very apt actually.

I'm amazed by the opposite perspective. Women,
every day, all around the world resign themselves to fewer children than they may have wanted or even to no children at all. OP is extremely lucky to have two children already. There is no 'right' to have children, however the OPs DH does absolutely have the right to say that he doesn't want to have any more. Babies are wonderful and joyful. They're also exhausting, emotionally draining, financially draining...shall I go on? It is in no way selfish for anyone to say that they don't want to do that. I agree with Boogiethebeat that anyone who cannot accept not having more children to the extent that has been described could do with professional help.

Bizawit , you might want to consider that many of us have had to make these difficult decisions and have thought this through thoroughly.

[quote Bizawit]@lynsey91 clearly you don’t understand the pain of desperately wanting a baby and being unable to fulfil that desire. Having children already doesn’t take that away- have you read stories from women with secondary infertility?
And on your last statement I couldn’t disagree more, I love my partner but would never chose him over my children.[/quote]
She's got 2 children so her desire for children has been fulfilled.

She doesn't need 3, no one does.

If she chose to leave her partner just to satisfy her selfish wish for a third child then she clearly wouldn't love him. In that case why be with him? Or is he just meant to be a baby making machine?

@dohdohdoh

I've seen the planet excuse so much on these mumsnet threads. All the people who seem to think that having a third child is bad for the planet have misunderstood how population growth and climate change works.

It's pretty universally agreed that biggest two things that will help climate change are technology and government policy.

The carbon footprint of our children will not be the same as ours, as technology and policies improve our carbon footprint will grow smaller and smaller, as will our children's and our children's children. Also Hans Rosling I think explains how the world's population won't exceed a certain amount.

It's not as simple as "if you have two, one or none children that you are "helping" the planet". Don't carry the weight of the world on your shoulders OP, when making this decision. I hope you and your husband can reach a decision that works for you both.

It's not an excuse, the planet is overpopulated. How on earth can you think it isn't?

The UK is ridiculously overpopulated and I really do not believe that carbon footprints will become smaller and smaller. Each generation has wanted more and more in terms of material items, more holidays abroad, more vehicles (so many households with 2, 3, 4 or more cars), bigger cars which use more fuel etc etc.

More people do need to think about this when decided how many children to have

@dottiedodah

I fail to see why" his views trump yours!" The fact is you would like another baby .This is natural ,and some years ago would probably have happened anyway with less reliable forms of contraception. No matter how many babies you have ,some people crave more .We can all tell you to give up the dream ,buy a puppy or whatever but this is about your feelings ffs! Can you get over to him how you feel ,Really explain where you are coming from? The problem here is he is set against it while you are wanting another! I think in time you would be resentful .Maybe try Counselling and talk about it in depth with a trained counsellor.

Why is it "natural" to want a third child? Is it also natural to want a 4th or 5th or 6th or more?

We are not animals. We are perfectly capable of making sensible decisions about having children

Each generation has wanted more and more in terms of material items, more holidays abroad, more vehicles (so many households with 2, 3, 4 or more cars), bigger cars which use more fuel etc etc.

Absolutely. In fact going from 2-3 children is surely the worst...2 car seats fit quite comfortably in a small family car. 3 car seats needs a great big polluter. I don't think anyone with a large family should feel guilty but it's a fair consideration when deciding on family size.

@Ussernayme you might want to consider that many of us have had to make these difficult decisions and have thought this through thoroughly.

Umm what makes you think I haven’t? I just have a different opinion to you.

@lynsey91 She's got 2 children so her desire for children has been fulfilled. She doesn't need 3

This is exactly the kind of statement that troubles me. Clearly her desire for has not been fulfilled as she has clearly stated in her original post. So what makes you think you know more about her desires and needs than she does?

Umm what makes you think I haven’t? I just have a different opinion to you.

I don't think you haven't at all. I assumed you had in fact. I was referring to your insistence that anyone with a different opinion to you didn't understand and hadn't experienced these feelings.

I'm so sorry to mention that in the past the men would come home and shag their wifes (who looked after them household wise) and see it as a right for them to have many children but not be involved.

The number of children we now choose to have is not, and never has been universal.

I may have wanted another when my youngest was 2 years old. Probably because having the other two validated me as a young female.

Now I've got two beautiful and productive sons, mainly due to my input, and the old man is a doddery slack mouth git who doesn't know where the shopping goes after I work for it and bring it home.

@Ussernayme

Umm what makes you think I haven’t? I just have a different opinion to you.

I don't think you haven't at all. I assumed you had in fact. I was referring to your insistence that anyone with a different opinion to you didn't understand and hadn't experienced these feelings.

Oh ok I get you. That’s fair, but there have been some people who have said something to the effect: ‘I know it’s really hard OP, but you have to deal with it, because DH trumps’ etc. I disagree with that perspective entirely but I wouldn’t say those posters lacked understanding/ empathy. But then there have been many other people who have trivialised / disparaged/ minimised OP’s desire to have another child. Maybe some pp are just projecting their own personal pain, but it does come across as lacking in understanding and empathy.

*@lynsey91 "It's not an excuse, the planet is overpopulated. How on earth can you think it isn't?

The UK is ridiculously overpopulated and I really do not believe that carbon footprints will become smaller and smaller. Each generation has wanted more and more in terms of material items, more holidays abroad, more vehicles (so many households with 2, 3, 4 or more cars), bigger cars which use more fuel etc etc.

More people do need to think about this when decided how many children to have"*

By 2030 you won't even be able to buy a petrol or diesel car in the uk.

Previous generations didn't know/have to worry about climate change - we do and as a result people are altering their behaviours and taking the environment into account already.

Not having children isn't the magical solution to solve climate change - western societies tend to have fewer children than developing countries anyway but a larger carbon footprints. So the thing to focus on is bringing down the carbon footprint! Not the already relatively small families we are having.

Also the population of the UK is an ageing one - people are on the whole having fewer children! Taken from the ONS website:
"The structure of the UK’s population is changing: people living longer and having fewer children means the age structure is shifting towards later ages."
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/august2019

One of my friends was in this situation. She desperately wanted a second child and her partner wasn't enthusiastic. She told him she was going to stop using contraception and if he didn't want another child it was on him to sort himself out. He didn't want to use condoms or have a vasectomy so he decided that pulling out would be fine.

She's 20 weeks pregnant with baby 2.

@lynsey91

*"It's not an excuse, the planet is overpopulated. How on earth can you think it isn't?

The UK is ridiculously overpopulated and I really do not believe that carbon footprints will become smaller and smaller. Each generation has wanted more and more in terms of material items, more holidays abroad, more vehicles (so many households with 2, 3, 4 or more cars), bigger cars which use more fuel etc etc.

More people do need to think about this when decided how many children to have"*

By 2030 you won't even be able to buy a petrol or diesel car in the uk.

Previous generations didn't know/have to worry about climate change - we do and as a result people are altering their behaviours and taking the environment into account already.

Not having children isn't the magical solution to solve climate change - western societies tend to have fewer children than developing countries anyway but a larger carbon footprints. So the thing to focus on is bringing down the carbon footprint! Not the already relatively small families we are having.

Also the population of the UK is an ageing one - people are on the whole having fewer children! Taken from the ONS website:
"The structure of the UK’s population is changing: people living longer and having fewer children means the age structure is shifting towards later ages."
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/august2019