Fed is Best!!!!!!

[HotDawg123]

If you choose to breast feed - good for you
If you choose to bottle feed - good for you
But if you choose to be a breast feeding warrior and look at those who choose to bottle feed as scum then I hope you slip in dog shit tomorrow.

The amount of horrible women I've come across who are like this is too many now. And as I am heavily pregnant and have hormone rage it is really pissing me off.

Thank you for listening.

When I went to general baby groups I couldn't talk about how much I was struggling with breastfeed because I'ld be snapped at and told "well at last you CAN breastfeed, I couldn't" (often by people who stopped when they hit the same hurdles that I'ld battled through). Which is another reason why breastfeeding groups matter, it's a space where you can laugh and cry about how hard it is without having to stay quiet (and act grateful and happy) so you don't upset the formula feeders.

Tinsel in your area there maybe a lot of those. In my area there are none!

I'm not setting up a bf group I made that clear. Don't see why that's of the upmost importance?

All mums need support, whether that be with feeding a baby or because they are feeling alone. That is the point of my feeding corner.

Personal experience; bf groups did not help me, they made me feel pushed out and I got ignored! When they did stick there noses in it was to tell me how I could do it better when I was doing it the right way for my dd who did struggle. I left and became a bf councillor because I didn't want other mums to feel the way I did.

You know skerry that is exactly what you have been doing here and to an extent so have you tinsel. And this is why bf advocates have such a bad rep and what the op was talking about.

Clearly demonstrated exactly what a lot of people think about the bf community.

Fortunately I'm not one of those bf mums who think I'm cut from a different cloth.
I come from an average family, live in a rural area and work hard to provide for my family. I give part of my time voluntarily to help mums to bf and to support their needs. Instead of throwing out figures, facts and jargon, I give them my first hand experiences as a mother myself who was once, and will be again in their position! This is what I longed for when I had my dd1 which I did not receive!

Attitude towards bf must change that is a fact but so do attitudes towards ff! It is not fair to say 'you're wrong, formula is wrong, you're making a bad choice for your child!' That is pig ignorance.

You know why I started breastfeeding? Because I was told you lose baby weight faster. No one told me that bf babies don't poo, they explode! No one told me I'd shoot milk out every time my dd cried. No one told me I wouldn't be able to lay down on my side with out creating a wet patch. No one told me I'd leak through my breastpads and have have to cut one my nans incontinence pads in half as a substitutes.
Looking back on it now, it actually quite funny. These are all experiences I use to help my ladies feel less alone. They're not the only ones it's happened to. It's not just about the feeding issues.

I think this is really interesting...

ld be snapped at and told "well at last you CAN breastfeed, I couldn't" (often by people who stopped when they hit the same hurdles that I'ld battled through). Which is another reason why breastfeeding groups matter, it's a space where you can laugh and cry about how hard it is without having to stay quiet (and act grateful and happy) so you don't upset the formula feeders.

When did we get so polarised? What has caused this division between new mothers? I doubt it is the new mothers themselves, most new mothers individually want to befriend other new mothers - if only so they can lament their lack of sleep and go for a coffee with someone who won't judge them for having sick down their trousers. What has caused this chasm between us that women BFing have the experiences they do from FF mothers and vice versa?

There is something very, very wrong with a society that pits mothers against one another in this way. Is it just part of our tribal / cliquey nature as human beings, or can we do something about it?

I don't have the magic wand btw, I am just wondering... Having had very similar experiences of exclusion to you tinsel but because I combination / Ffed, it seems that feeding causes a lot of heartache on both sides of the fence. I wish there could be a way we could come together to support all new mothers effectively, with specialist support where it is needed for breastfeeding, FFing, mental health etc without excluding anyone.

Plenty of bf cafes around all over the country, look on the net. These are the ones that pushed me out and made me feel inferior!

Luna that is the point of the group in setting up. To dispel all of this misinformation out there given by the bf advocates.
I've never heard any ff say at least you can breastfeed! Never heard that anywhere!

Out of all my friends I'm the only one who bf, they all said it was great. Never suggested a bottle either.

Funny how that suggestion always seems to come up.

I may be being very cynical here but this thread has really got my brain ticking over (an achievement whilst PG and with toddler) and it seems to me that there is as much of an interest in keeping breastfeeding a bit 'special' and 'superior' as there is in formula companies keeping babies formula fed rather than breastfed...

Granted, formula companies make pots and pots of money out of making and selling baby formula but lactation consultants as a profession aren't exactly giving their time for free, are they?

The ones I have seen outside of the minute NHS provision have charged a significant sum - around £100 for the first consultation and that's without follow ups etc - significant enough to exclude women without any disposable income who would then have to wait weeks potentially to see someone on the underfunded NHS, at which point they have probably switched to formula so their baby doesn't starve.

Even the NCT drop in near me charges £20 per visit, despite the mothers attending having already paid between £300 and £450 to attend their NCT course... I have it on good authority that the money you pay to the NCT for your course doesn't all go to the ante-natal teacher, in fact they get a very small proportion of the money and do it for the love of it rather than the income. The rest of the money goes to the central NCT and from there, no idea. Not into accessible breastfeeding support clearly if women are paying to attend drop ins.

I am sure there are some altruistic people who give their time for free but I think it is important when looking at the polarisation between BF and FF mothers that breastfeeding support is as much of a business as formula feeding, albeit with a smaller market share.

I'm a new mum. I'm super proud of how I feed my baby and how well she is doing. Do I bf or ff? None of your business. I couldn't give two hoots how anyone else feds their baby and Id have some choice words for anyone who would have an opinion on mine. Time and time again in this new world of motherhood I see women with such a lack of confidence. Screaming for acceptance and validation for their own personal choices or decisions. It would be hugely beneficial for a greater emphasis on groups to support all mums with their own confidence and empowerment. Get more women to be educated in the options and then supportive of each other in whatever choices they make. Shesh, we're all just trying our best to survive and enjoy what we are lucky to have ✌

Amy I have also felt the judgement in BFing cafes when I have been in there with my non-judgemental BFing friends. Such a shame.

I think BFing cafes are great as a space for BFing women to feel comfortable that they can feed their baby in peace without the risk of judgement, comments and staring etc that they can sometimes get elsewhere. It would be nice if FFing mothers could feed their babies there without judgement too.

Poor weight gain- give formula

Skerry, this was the advice given to me by three different midwives to prevent hospital referral for DS. I'm not sure what alternatives you think you could have offered my big baby and low milk supplies?

tinsel - i'm pointing out that considering other countries FF more than us and have better health outcomes, is there any particular reason you focus on BF? Where is the compelling evidence that makes you feel this is something to focus on?

And given the evidence that promoting BF may actually lead to worse outcomes for some babies?

I think BF is worth doing, and those who want to do it should be supported (Amy's group sounds great!), but given the limited evidence that getting everyone to EBF for 6 months would actually improve health outcomes - why are you invested in it?

Or is it that you want those who want to breastfeed to have more support?

Because I get the impression that the end game is to persuade all women to EBF for 6 months but I can't see much evidence that that would dramatically improve health outcomes - at all - especially for those women who don't want to do it.

Right! so lets re-cap this thread shall we:

Because countries that are bad at BFing rates, are good at other things (like access to emergency healthcare, vaccines and antibiotics etc), BFing is not better for kids than formula - that's not how science works!

Breastfeeding group is not the time or place to talk about the benfits of breastfeeding because that might make people who don't do it feel bad [confuses], so breastfeeding group should be like all other social settings for mum where politeness trumps facts.

There is no need for breastfeeding groups (which aren't compulsary by the way), no benefit for a space where it's okay to be frank about breastfeeding, and no need for a space where breastfeeding is the norm.

A group that meets a specific need is "divisive", do posters also think this about twin/multiples support groups? Special needs mums groups? Young mums groups?

If someone cannot say something supportive to someone who can't or didn't breastfeed without in the process rubbishing breastfeeding and denying it's benefits or perpetuating BF myths, that's okay! that's not going to cause ANY problems for the audience of that conversation………HOWEVER, anyone who gives the correct information to balance that out is the bad guy and is the one responsible for poor BFing rates

Low BFing rates isn't a problem, it's nobodys business, and not a feminist issue

Have I got it?

I wouldn't say France has better access to emergency treatment, antibiotics and vaccines than we do? Unless I don't know something about their health system that you do?

But they BF even less than we do...and have better neonatal and perinatal outcomes.

And they also have way more epidurals but fewer C sections. Another lesson there I feel...

You can have a BF group, I think Amy is saying it might be nice to have a space for all mothers to meet in a supportive and non-judgemental environment. No one has to go to a mixed feeding group.

Low BFing rates isn't a problem - correct! As long as women who want to breastfeed are supported to do so, then it's not a problem IMO if rates are low.

It is a feminist issue because controlling women's bodies - by telling them how they should give birth (as painfully as possible) and how they should feed (at maximum effort, with no attention to their own mental health) - seems to be the MO of some BF and natural birth advocates. And as a feminist I think that's complete shit, and we should let women choose to do what they want, after giving them the info.

Also tinsel you seem to be ignoring the paper on how the BFHI (baby friendly hospital initiative) may have caused 500 extra neonatal deaths...

If someone cannot say something supportive to someone who can't or didn't breastfeed without in the process rubbishing breastfeeding and denying it's benefits or perpetuating BF myths, that's okay! that's not going to cause ANY problems for the audience of that conversation………HOWEVER, anyone who gives the correct information to balance that out is the bad guy and is the one responsible for poor BFing rates

Actually I think that posters that are 'balancing out' information on a thread where the OP has said they can't bf due to a double mastectomy, are asked to show consideration, yet continue are 'bad guys' tbh and completely lack any sort of compassion.

That's not what's happening. What IS happening here is posters saying that in order to support those who don't/can't breastfeed, you must deny facts and correct information, and allow missinformation to spread if it's in the guise of support. (It is possible to support people who don't BF without spreading BS about BFing FYI!)

Choice is only a free choice when all options and facts are presented, otherwise it's not really a choice

Low BFing rates isn't a problem - correct!

So why does so much effort go into trying to increase breastfeeding rates?

All these physicians, public health experts, WHO, UNICEF, NGO breastfeeding organisations, charities, Paediatricians who work hard to increase breastfeeding rates are misguided?

That is some global conspiracy theory you are on alyosha.

Rubbishing BFing is not a healthy way to "support" those who don't/can't BF

I see you only address comments that you think fit into your warped rhetoric, skerry.

Well Skerry, in this country (the UK - for most), we have access to safe water & sterilisation of bottles.

In other countries, BF is the only safe option. So if you live in a country like Russia or Ukraine where the water isn't great - then BF is the best option.

But in the UK and other developed countries there is limited evidence that increasing BF will have any effect on neonatal mortality. EBF is highly associated with the most priveleged people in this country, so most benefits are hard to tease out from parental background.

In other developed countries such as France, FF is more common than here but they have better health outcomes.

AND there is evidence that encouraging breastfeeding to the extent hospitals are encouraged by WHO has potentially caused 500 excess neonatal deaths in Europe.

No one is rubbishing BFing.

Saying that actually the benefits of EBF over FF are minimal at best in this country is not "rubbishing" BF.

Lots of women want to BF - they should be supported to do so. I want to BF! I want to be supported to do so. It seems like it could be easier & cheaper than FF.

But for those who don't want to BF there should be support to FF.

I don't think there's a global conspiracy - increasing BF in some countries will have much more dramatic consequences than it would in the UK. If you don't have safe water then clearly BF is really important. If you don't have access to readily available really hot water, then BF is very important.

I don't think that applies to the UK though.

I don't think that applies to the UK though.

That's a very arrogant stance.

Ha!

www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/Life-stages/pages/news/news/2013/08/breastfeeding-mothers-need-peer-counselling

The WHO benefits do NOT just apply to the third world!

That's not what's happening.

Actually it has happened in the past.