Fed is Best!!!!!!

[HotDawg123]

If you choose to breast feed - good for you
If you choose to bottle feed - good for you
But if you choose to be a breast feeding warrior and look at those who choose to bottle feed as scum then I hope you slip in dog shit tomorrow.

The amount of horrible women I've come across who are like this is too many now. And as I am heavily pregnant and have hormone rage it is really pissing me off.

Thank you for listening.

They shouldn't fuck off but it's not fair ti BF mums who want a safe spar to discuss BF without the drama of FF v BF.

You know of FF felt that passionately they could set up their own support network with volunteers much like LLL.

No one is stopping them. And good luck to them but I won't be volunteering to help.

Totally agree with NannyOggs. Many bf advocates and lactation consultants actually behave in a way that is very damaging to their own cause. And the language around bf is indeed toxic, starting with "breast is best", which cunningly implies you've failed at doing the best for your child if you don't bf.

I often hear that there is no actual pressure to bf, but then why are so many women terribly disappointed and unhappy when they can't bf, for whatever reason? I think there is a lot of pressure to bf, disguised as help, support and advice. All based on flimsy scientific evidence about the massive benefits of bf, which actually are very small in developed countries.
Personally, I believe many bf advocates simply want to feel superior to other mothers, and bf is just one way of achieving that.

Let me get this right- you would rather FF mums didn't attend your group because of the atmosphere it would create? You are the one creating the atmosphere by judging them. How about being more inclusive and being cool with everyone and fostering an understanding.
Are you suggesting you would abandon a seriously depressed woman who has been struggling to BF because she chose to switch to formula. She wouldn't be allowed to attend your group anymore?
Setting up rival groups is not the way to heal divisions and stop the arguing.

So you're saying do away with breastfeeding groups and just replace them with generic baby groups (which already exist FYI) ?

No. I am saying that feeding groups should be feeding groups. It can work. The BF support group I attended was for BF and FF mums. Once you divide people into tribes then you create divides. Isn't the mental health of mothers the most important thing? I think it's more important than pushing one form of feeding over another.

"breast is best", which cunningly implies you've failed at doing the best for your child if you don't bf"

It states - not implies, that breastfeeding is best for babies. It states this because of evidence that at a population level breastmilk is better tolerated by babies and because it's associated with the best outcomes in relation to health and development.

If someone said 'a healthy, varied weaning diet is best for babies' would you say this simple statement 'implies' that the mothers of children who are extremely limited in what they will eat (there are many - not the parents fault) are 'failing'?

I don't think so!

nanny - its called a breastfeeding support group, its run by my childrens centre. why would you rock up to discuss ff?

I think nannyogg that the reason for breastfeeding only groups will be because of evidence that breastfeeding is best supported - i.e, more women will meet their breastfeeding goals, in a group solely focused on supporting breastfeeding.

we don't peddle breast is best btw.

You are wrong mini. Feeding needs to be supported. The health of mums and babies is paramount, especially in those early days. Shunning FF as dirty and unwelcome, lest it lure away your BF mums, smacks of a lack of confidence in your method.
I've said it before- some of the people who advocate BF do it the it's damage with their attitudes and language.
FF is it the enemy of BF. It's the alternative. Keeping someone Doing anything out of fear is cruel. Find a more positive and inclusive message.
I'd also like you to think hard about the number of glassy eyes, struggling women you've helped and set aside when their actions didn't fit your ideals. Do you ever wonder what happened to them? How your words affected them in the long term? There is a real lack of empathy being shown here.

BTW, the concept of 'mommywars' are just bollocks encouraged by the formula companies.

here

Breastfeeding or formula feeding doesn't allocate you to a 'tribe'.

I would never abandon a severely depresed mother. I would inform my infant feeding co-ordinator, who would inform the HV team to urgently reach out to the mother.

I am not trained in dealing with MH issues.

I take MH very seriously as does my childrens centre, I have suffered from depression. My mother died of an overdose.

A BF support group is the last place a mother who is suffering from depression because she cant breastfeed needs to be. She will be surrounded by mothers bf, hearing bf topics.

Mums will have come tot he group wanting to discuss BF without feeling guilty that another mother is dealing with issues relating to being unable to bf. it may mean she doesnt ask for help.

Ffs - who is shunning formula as 'dirty'?

I wouldn't go to a twin mum support group, that doesn't mean that twin mums are excluding me and creating a divide between twin mummies and mummies of singletons - they just need their own space for their specific issues that they have in common. AS WELL AS all the already existing everyone welcome groups

FFS

i have no idea who is saying ff is dirty, I never have nor will ever say this having fed formula to 2 of my babies.

I do not judge mothers for feeding formula, that doesnt mean I should suddenly stop volunteering to support BF mothers.

You seem to think that you can either be for or against, yet in reality I think most sensible people just let mother's get on with their lives and choices without the need to judge.

I think people like nannyogg actually set out to create as much paranoia and defensiveness as possible by going around making comments like that.

I find this thread interesting as in my personal experience, none of my friends who bf ever said anything negative about formula and were (certainly in my case) careful not to ever suggest that bf was better. I struggled with breastfeeding and found it restrictive but I stuck with it into toddlerhood because I felt it had benefits to my DC. I would have loved some support for just the struggle and the sleepless nights where no-one but you will do, but I found the mums I knew mostly ff and it always felt like they wanted to "recruit" me to ff. Literally telling me why I should ff. If I had said "you should bf because your baby is more important than you being able to have a night out at 6 weeks post-partum" there would be absolutely outrage. And rightly so. But I got criticised for bf by my in laws, told my DC would be too dependent on me, and told how I should ff by multiple people.

Look, all I am saying is that there is a gap when BF mothers become FF mothers and perhaps there should be more support. Suggesting that FF should get it's own groups and consultants is divisive. I fail to see how the current advisor can't do both. Unless they are morally against FF.
Women are falling through the gaps. Language around BF is emotive and damaging to the mental health of vulnerable new mothers. You might like to think it's not. But it is. There are women who still carry the emotional scars of being a failed breast feeder. What can we do to change that? I am only asking these questions because I believe the current system to be dangerously flawed and failing a certain demographic of mothers. People who generously offer their time to give BF support should be lauded but not uncritically.

I am trained in how to achieve a good latch, expressing, storing milk, employees rights, basic information on mastitis, blocked ducts, thrush, dealing with teething, tandem feeding etc.

I can provide information on how to make up a bottle. But beyond that, what does a FF mother need from a feeding specialist?

If there is a MH issue then the mother needs to discuss this with a healthcare professional, not a volunteer who would be massively out of their depth. Indeed this goes for a FF or BF mother.

What can we do to change that?
Well for the start, you could stop spreading the outright lie that breastfeeding mums are against them and judging them, and then you could not buy into the formula sponsored ideas of "mummy wars" which is designed to derail promotion of breastfeeding as divisive, then it is not.

NannyOggs , you are by for the most "them and us" person on this thread.

You don't seem to get it. I'm going to stop explaining it to you. I'm not the one saying BF mums are judging FF mums. The contributions on this thread have done that already. It is your own language that spreads division. I'm just asking you to think about what you say and how you say it because it will have a long term effect on people. I am asking for less division, not more. Feed your child however you need to. But however you feed your child you should get support. I would like more feeding advisors to think about the power of giving a new mother the permission she needs to do what is right for her without guilt or fear. That's what I'd like to see.

"I'd also like you to think hard about the number of glassy eyes, struggling women you've helped and set aside when their actions didn't fit your ideals. Do you ever wonder what happened to them? How your words affected them in the long term? There is a real lack of empathy being shown here."

FYI - I'm not in a role where I'm supporting new mums.

But if I was I'd be kind because I'm a nice person.

Nannyogg - can I just gently point out that context is important.

You seem to have forgotten.

if someone is struggling because they have been failed with regards to breastfeeding support, anger towards what little support there is is misdirected.