Fed is Best!!!!!!

[HotDawg123]

If you choose to breast feed - good for you
If you choose to bottle feed - good for you
But if you choose to be a breast feeding warrior and look at those who choose to bottle feed as scum then I hope you slip in dog shit tomorrow.

The amount of horrible women I've come across who are like this is too many now. And as I am heavily pregnant and have hormone rage it is really pissing me off.

Thank you for listening.

Anecdotally, I had two doctors appointments this week.

One with 7 week DS talked about his weight gain - "well this should slow down once you switch to formula"

One about contraception - "It's only available after 9 months and it's likely that you won't be breastfeeding by then so you'll have a lot more options available to you"

DS is BF well, I'm very lucky that it's been a smooth journey so far and I'm very happy to continue. I have no circumstances that would mean I would have to consider an alternative. I've also breastfed DD for 2 years.

So why would 2 doctors feel the need to mention formula or not BF to me? I didn't mention it to them. But for another mum this might have been just the reassurance they needed to make the switch or to keep BF.

So my point is, in some circumstances, people see/hear/interpret things in the way that they want to. It's human nature I think.

tea to be quite honest I'm not really sure.

Fwiw I've only ever been asked how I'm feeding, and that is it. No more questions/suggestions.

It does seem that advice and the like is not consistent throughout the uk- many people on this thread and others have received comflicting information/lack of support.

What lifestyle milk feeding is a small small step in our child's nutritional journey- what she eats from weaning onwards is even more important that which milk she drank.
Fwiw for reasons I can't even be bothered to go into on this forum I had one fully ff child and one who was bfed for a while then ff. several years on they are bright, healthy and good eaters. It's made not a jot of difference to their personalities or health or behaviour. What has made a difference?
That they were fed a wide variety of healthy food from weaning onwards.
That I loved and cuddled them every single day and still do
That they went to the doctors when they were ill and I kept on top of their health
That I brushed their teeth and kept them clean.
That I taught them how to interact with others so they can learn to have friendships.
That they live in a warm house and feel safe.
I have and will make mistakes but none are related to milk.
None of this stuff has a jot to do with baby milk. Parenting is a much much bigger thing.

Tbh a good peer supporter should be able to advise on how to wean to formula. We are supposed to listen and allow the mother to reach her own conclusions without pressurising them. Of course we give as much information as possible to enable a mother to continue BF, signpost to the local lactation clinic etc. But yes we do know how to make up bottles of formula, and how to wean to bottle. Done incorrectly mothers can get engorged boobs/mastitis.

We assume though that people come to us for support to continue BF. A strictly FF wouldn't come to our group because we are not about that, so a mother who attends should expect to here BF being promoted.

If anyone encounters a useless peer supporter, especially a judgey bitch them please report them. They need retraining.

What I mean is, unless a mother states she wants to use formula we can't suggest it. For a start there maybe a medical reason that needs investigating as to why a mother can no longer produce enough milk etc. We would signpost them to their GP and not just recommend formula. I would assume that any parent would know if the baby is not gaining weight and BF is not working you would reach for formula. It is not devil milk, I've used it too.

When she was nine weeks old, I had a choice of giving her formula or letting her starve. What else was I meant to do?

You should have been better supported to know your choices in that circumstances, as there was another choice you seem to have not been made aware of: donor milk. Which is preferable to formula. Formula was NOT your only choice, but unfortunatly due to a combination of our society's attitudes, and formula companies maintaining a monopoly as the "only" alternative to direct breast feeding, mothers are still left feeling that formula is their only choice.

Pondering - with respect none of us have ANY IDEA or any way of measuring how our infant feeding choices may have affected our children!

It also applies to diet and habits in pregnancy.

Some women smoke all the way through pregnancy, or eat really awful food full of sugar and trans fats. Some people wean their children onto highly refined or sugary foods. Mostly you can't tell by looking at the child

My nephew is 12 and has NEVER eaten fruit or vegetables. He eats 'kiddie food' - nuggets, chips, white bread, noodles etc. He is 2 inches taller than my 13 year old, who eats loads of vegetables and good quality proteins, is stronger, broader and fitter. His skin is beautiful and he has clear eyes and good teeth. Does this mean that not eating fruit and veg isn't a problem and has had no impact (and will have no impact) on his health at all? On the strength of this could my brother go around saying - 'ignore the research about healthy, it doesn't matter. Look at my son!' No? So why would you apply a completely different logic to infant feeding? 'If I can't measure it, it's not important'?

But where do you get donor milk from? The only time I've heard it mentioned was at the useless breastfeeding class I did, where the midwife told us we could donate any 'extra' milk we produced to the NICU.

The only milk I was offered for tube feeding DD in SCBU was formula and whatever I could express myself. No mention of donor milk.

"to see feeding consultants who have more training and who can, if a mother needs to or wants to, advise how to mixed feed or switch to formula. If that is what is right for mother and baby then that's the advice they should get"

Breastfeeding counsellors and lactation consultants do help mums with using formula or ending breastfeeding if it's clinically indicated or the mother has requested help with this.

Would add to Pondering that all the things you mention (other aspects of parenting) being important doesn't make infant feeding unimportant.

I breastfed my youngest for nearly three years. He has autism and life and parenting as he is growing up is sometimes really challenging. Our breastfeeding relationship was a time of intense closeness, reciprocity and nurture that I couldn't have replicated through bottle feeding. I really want to scream when I read glib, broad assurances that breastfeeding isn't important in the grand scheme of parenting. I want to say 'not important for you' You really can't know what breastfeeding means for other people, or the role it plays in their relationship with their child or their child's development.

Just because breastfeeding is hard or unpopular in the UK doesn't mean we should feel obliged to take a populist stance on the issue and constantly trivialise its value.

captain The issue is that if you are just a BF consultant then you are only doing half the job for some mothers. This is why they should be infant feeding consultants in the true sense. Someone who is hormonal, sleep deprived and guilt ridden is hardly likely to mention to her BF consultant that she wants to switch to FF. What would be your response if someone did? Use donor milk? Don't give up so easily?

I still think this shows ideals over the welfare of mothers and babies. I'm not convinced that the long term benefits of BF warrant this all or nothing approach where bewildered and frightened women are being left feeling like failures.

Feeding consultants shouldn't have an agenda. They might find acceptance from a wider range of mothers BF therefore a chance to help people who want to BF but might not have considered it. Women should have support to feed their baby in anyway that is appropriate for them and their child. The support offered is just too one sided at the moment. I doubt anyone becomes a lactaction consultant unless they feel pretty strongly about BF in the first place. Maybe this is the problem. The whole process needs to be much more non-judgemental. There are people on this thread that have aired views that are entirely wrong, impractical and, ultimately, damaging to the image of BF. This is why many women are put off BF before they've tried it. Maybe you should think about a change of approach. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Interesting thread. I bf with some formula when I was at work. I was on the receiving end of negative comments about the fact I was still bf. In NCT group all the mums who bf had received unsupportive comments , those who ff rarely received any. I always get passionate on these threads because I think it should work both ways - how someone feeds their baby is a personal decision. I do agree however that the facts should be given to expectant mums

a time of intense closeness, reciprocity and nurture that I couldn't have replicated. through bottle feeding.

I got exactly those things from bottle feeding.

Breastfeeding is great. if you want
to do it.

mini and pondering You've just pointed out the flaws in your own logic. We will never really know the true benefits of BF because of the plethora of variables that contribute to child development. This is the flaw in ever study in BF- including the ones you linked to mini. You can't claim BF does something and then say that other variables don't based on anecdotal data.

Do what is right for you. Some women don't like the intensity of BF. It doesn't hell them bond. Some do. Remember that your experience won't be reproduced by everyone and maybe help people find something that makes them happy. If you really cared about mothers and baby es then that's what you'd do.

Have already responded but pondering you have made me consider my own point further. I truly think alot of the percieved 'judginess' mums feel about feeding their babies in the way the choose (crass comments from hcps and mils etc aside) is that for 6 months that is ALL your baby recieves and becomes such a huge issue at a time when we are at our absolute most vulnerable and hormonal and, dare i say, we may be probe to taking perfectly innocent comments etc the wrong way. There has tbf been a bit of breastfeeding pushing on this thread, there has also been a lot of breastfeeding sneariness. As echoed by many other posters before you, the health benefits of breastmilk clinically outweigh that of formula milk but far far far more important is the health and well being of the mum. If breastfeeding or bottlefeeding is going to make life easier for her, than thats the best method for feeding her baby!

Our breastfeeding relationship was a time of intense closeness, reciprocity and nurture that I couldn't have replicated through bottle feeding

If you haven't bottle-fed, how do you know?

I agree with the point you're making about people saying that breastfeeding is unimportant, but I think comments like this immediately get people's backs up, because if you haven't bottle-fed, how do you know whether you could replicate it or not?

Our breastfeeding relationship was a time of intense closeness, reciprocity and nurture that I couldn't have replicated through bottle feeding

As pp has said. If you have never ff how would you know if this is the case!

It's so sad the amount of pressure us mums are under and how we feel judged right from the moment our baby is born. It was awful reading that story in the news recently about that poor newborn who died of dehydration all because he wasn't getting enough breastmilk, and his mum didn't get the support/advice needed.
With my first, I struggled for 2 weeks to breastfeed. He just wasn't taking to it. I felt like such a failure. I so wanted him to have the best start. I felt like all Health Professionals never even suggested I do otherwise until at 2 weeks after him crying his poor little head off for hours on end (and had lost a substantial amount of weight) the MW recommended trying a bottle. The instant I gave him to him he fed rapidly and had a proper feed for the first time in his little life. I felt so bad not giving it to him sooner but everyone just told me to keep persevering. He wouldn't even take breastmilk expressed after trying formula - for whatever reason he just didn't like it.
I had a completely different experience with my second and third babies who took to the breast straight away and luckily were good feeders. I managed to breastfeed them both for a year. I still felt judged by others asking how long I was going to continue etc, and sometimes made to feel uncomfortable whilst out. You can't win either way. At the end of the day the very most important thing is that baby is thriving and happy.. and that makes for a happy mum. Don't worry about what anybody else says or thinks. Every woman and baby is different, and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another! I just wish that that was the message given to new mums xx

good point about never doing it Piglet and Ovaries. Although I expect mini knew she would get a reaction out of that one.

I don't think breastfeeding is not important at all. I never said that. What I did say is that it's one small aspect of bringing up a child. If you use formula this is a healthy alternative to breast milk with all the appropriate vitamins and minerals included for healthy growth. This is not comparable to someone never eating a vegetable for their whole childhood. Formula is a good alternative to breastmilk and no one should be made to feel a failure for us it.

Also mini how do you know you couldn't have felt close to your baby bottle feeding it, as it's something you've never done?

I have breastfeed and formula fed, and felt close both times.

Nanny, you asked about the sleep deprived mother. It would all depend on; how old baby is, how much support there is at home, what the mother wants to do.

Formula isn't a magic sleep inducing substance so I would caution that the mum might find it won't suddenly make a baby sleep through.

If it's a newborn of say 6 weeks I'd explain about growth spurts and constant feeding to increase supply.

If mum wants to introduce a bottle I'd say it that yes some mums do this but it might affect supply. Obviously I can't say one wAy or another if it will or won't. It's not my decision to make.

I'd explain about cluster feeding if a mum is worried about spending hours in evening feeding. I tell her it won't last forever.

I tell her we meet every week to support one another in a safe environment where all aspects of BF can be discussed. Because sometimes just being with others in same boat helps.

For a mum with an older baby or toddler not sleeping well I'd suggest the health visitor, because my training is limited to breastfeeding. BF babies can sleep through the night from quite young and its really annoying having to fight the misconception that just because a BF baby feeds day and night in the first weeks of life they will forever feed in this pattern until you introduce formula.

Mostly we are their to listen, offer information and signpost to either GP, midwife, HV etc.

captain You missed the point of my post. I'm not saying formula helps sleep. I'm saying when you are sleep deprived, hormonal, struggling and desperate it can be difficult to verbalise the desire to change to formula. Some women need to be told it's ok and that they aren't failing their child by not being able to get on with BF.

I agree that there are cases when all that's needed is moral support. But sometimes all a woman wants is the permission to do what she knows she needs to do. Having a newborn is a total head fuck. I wish I'd given up BF sooner. It really damaged my relationship with my DD.

Also I'm not sure why FF mums would need to attend an infant feeding support group? What aspect of FF do they need specialist support with that a HV or midwife can't explain?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I volunteer my time to support mums who would like to bf, because it's not always easy and yes my local council paid for my training because our area has one of the worst BF rates in Britain. They are trying to encourage mums to BF, if I spent half my time at groups supporting FF it would distract from the main issue.

They are not FF mum's. They are struggling, guilt ridden BF mum's who are hating it, not getting on with desperately trying to BF. I think it's harsh that you think mum's should just fuck off as soon as they start FF. All infant feeding is racked with worry and issues. Perhaps there wouldn't be so many misconceptions around FF is the support encompassed all feeding methods.