Fed is Best!!!!!!

[HotDawg123]

If you choose to breast feed - good for you
If you choose to bottle feed - good for you
But if you choose to be a breast feeding warrior and look at those who choose to bottle feed as scum then I hope you slip in dog shit tomorrow.

The amount of horrible women I've come across who are like this is too many now. And as I am heavily pregnant and have hormone rage it is really pissing me off.

Thank you for listening.

'Breast is best' is not a fact. The WHO position on breast feeding is led by the fact that FF is dangerous in countries without proper sanitation or clean water. In a G7 country with clean water and indoor plumbing there is no reason that FF can't be safe. Peer reviewed studies have yet to show conclusive data show that BF is in any meaningful way better than FF. Once you have adjusted for parental background the outcomes are pretty much the same.

So 'breast is best' is bollocks. my choices weren't limited by society. They were limited by my DDs medical condition. I suspect that is the same reason quite a few women end up 'failed' BF'ers.

Strangely, also agree with you that more should be done to promoted BF as a totally normal thing. I just don't think promoting it to the exclusion of all choice is the right way to go. I also think the language used around BF, especially by BF advocates is toxic, quite often ignorant rubbish and extremely damaging to their own cause.

People not breastfeeding doesn't cost the NHS money like obesity does, or cost the police forces money like offenders do. Or does it?

I thought breastfeeding support was good. I was given lots of information and numbers of breastfeeding councillors/ support groups before I had my DC.

I found it very difficult, she didn't latch well and ripped me to shreds and I was painfully engorged. I had so much support, I reached out and said I wanted to breastfeed and the support was there in droves to be honest. A councillor came to my house, I had extra midwife visits and we cracked it, she was breastfed for a year.

I trained as a volunteer supporter as a result and for a while went into the hospital to help the people who wanted it. If people wanted to bottle feed I tried to help them with their questions too.

I breastfed my son for 9 months encountering totally different issues.

I think the support is out there and can be good but you have to reach out for it. I never once came across breastfeeding warriors. I don't really care how people choose to feed THEIR child, I certainly don't judge as it's a total non-event to me. I just care that if people want help they can get it.

Most commonly I've seen breastfeeding fail due to medical intervention- if I had listened to my GP and others at my surgery breastfeeding would have failed for me as they were very quick to tell me to top up with formula in those early days which is a vicious circle on supply.

Tinsel I can't understand people being bothered enough about the uk having low rates. If it's not your children affected then why are people letting it get to them so much? I really really don't get it. Yes there should be support for people who want it, but if people don't want it then that's their choice too.

Sorry Tinsel, I may have misunderstood your post. Are you saying people that don't bf are inadequately educated?

The WHO position on breast feeding is led by the fact that FF is dangerous in countries without proper sanitation or clean water That is false! The WHO have clarified that their recommendations apply to western countries too because of the prevalence of this missinformation. And that donor milk is the preferable alternative to breastfeeding.

I have experienced both sides of this. One of my twins is breast fed and the other is combi (mainly formula) due to reflux and other feeding issues. I was told by one person that having one twin drink formula was 'the saddest thing she had ever heard' . However, I get lots of comments about making the other twin clingy and making a rod for my own back.

I do believe breastmilk is best nutritionally, although the benefits are often overstated. I also believe that people make the best decisions for their family and their unique circumstances. Better support for breastfeeding and less judgement for formula feeding would be a lot more helpful for everyone.

I need to clarify that I'm not against BF and would support rises in BF rates. I just think the current set up is devisive and wrong.

Sorry Tinsel, I may have misunderstood your post. Are you saying people that don't bf are inadequately educated?

Individuals, no. As a society, yes.

thanks for clarifying Tinsel

It's wierd isn't it. No one even mentioned bfing to me in hospital when I had ds2. Although I remember at ante natal appointments etc there was a lot of literature/videos/etc about bfing and its benefits.

Show me the peer reviewed evidence that supports BF being significantly statistically better and I'll agree with you.

But I think all of this pressure is about a moot point. Feed your baby. Be happy with them.

What do you think will happen if BF rates don't rise? What's the terrible outcome me that we're trying to avoid?

Iv never known a breastfeed to be this way. How very sad to start a thread aimed to dig at breastfeeders. Iv done both. Bottle fed my first 2 and exclusively breastfed till age 2 with dx 3&4 ! I have never and nor will ever look down on a way a woman feeds her baby. It's threads like these that start the feeding wars. Why start a thread if you really don't care either way ????

Donor milk is definitely preferable and of course bf is better for humans. It's what we are designed to drink ! Formula definitely has its valued place when bf does not go to plan or because of intolerances.

I always hear about these awful people that are breastfeeding tyrants and condemn anyone with a bottle. I also hear about people being disgusting towards mums that are breastfeeding. Having four children three who breastfed for an extended period of time and whom I would feed anywhere and one who was bottle fed from three months I have yet to meet anyone who is rude enough to comment either way. But good for you for feeling all ragey and indignant towards these people whom must exists because everyone but me has met them

It's about this point in these threads that I like to share this. It sums up what I'm trying to say wonderfully. www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/04/the-case-against-breast-feeding/307311/

I've never experienced the alleged tyranny of the breastfeeding advocate either- when I struggled with DC 1 (undiagnosed IUGR, failure to latch, bad jaundice) it was a breastfeeding counsellor that gently suggested a bit of formula would be helpful if we wanted to leave the hospital any time soon. I ended up feeding for over 2 years thanks to the time and space that bought us to get the hang of it at home.

Every single woman who goes to the breastfeeding cafe near me is gently asked what their goals are- sometimes this is exclusive feeding, sometimes they're looking for help to knock it on the head. And that's what they get. Of course support is patchy nationally- it's largely volunteer run. But that's WHY the funding for good support is needed.

If we're talking about being women led, the most important statistic is that over 80% of women stop BF before they wanted to, however long that was. I imagine a good proportion of those could have continued with support, and those are the women to target support at.

Incidentally, I think another thing that would be a good idea is a low priced 'national milk' in plain packaging. Would get rid of all the marketing mummy wars bollocks, mean formula was available for those who wanted or needed it at a non-extortionate price, and would ensure correct nutritional standards were met. Nutritionally there's not allowed to be any difference between milks anyway. It's all marketing gloss.

"Show me the peer reviewed evidence that supports BF being significantly statistically better and I'll agree with you."

Why does breastfeeding need to prove it's healthier?

Surely what you're really interested in is good quality research showing non-human milk is as safe and as healthy as human milk in large scale studies over prolonged periods of time, with rigorous controls?

Formula use became widespread long, long before any sophisticated or properly controlled research was done into the short, medium and long term outcomes associated with the use of non-human milk. In effect the last 70 years have been one giant, uncontrolled experiment driven primarily by commercial interests, in human nutrition - the most radical in human history, with babies as the subjects.

The bottom line is that research into infant feeding is uniquely challenging, particularly research into rarer long term outcomes like cancer or leukaemia. It's not possible to randomise or to blind; ignorance about breastfeeding even among medics and researchers has led to poorly constructed trials where babies who were predominantly formula fed were classified as 'breastfed' if they had even one breastfeed a day; research People have pounced on this as evidence that breastfeeding has few benefits and that even these are unproven - as though lack of evidence of benefit is evidence of lack of benefit.

FYI - if you're interested, this is a study (which isn't a population based and doesn't look at long term outcomes or more subtle aspects of health) - uses MRIs to identify differences in the brain structure of breastfed and formula fed babies:

here

here

So how do we improve the info that we get about breastfeeding? I gave birth in a UNICEF 'baby friendly' hospital and breastfeeding was gone on and on about- every staff member I went near was handing out the NHS Start4Life booklet about breastfeeding, wanting to check my latch etc etc

Once we'd been readmitted into SCBU with dehydration problems trying to get info about formula feeding was a nightmare. There was inconsistent advice about sterilising bottles. Hospital formula was kept in locked cupboards. I had to specifically ask for formula feeding info before I got the Start4Life booklet about it.

I don't trust the formula manufacturers to give info as they're selling a product, but I also don't trust the breastfeeding info I was given as so much of it proved to be untrue.

All mums need to support each other. Save judgement for those who abuse and neglect. I wish there were more support for helping mothers who choose to breastfeed because it is made out to be easy - the amount of times I got told 'you just whack a boob out!' I had no idea about cluster feeding, didn't realise milk doesn't come in for a few days, didn't know you should feed as much as possible in the first 24 hours. I had no idea that it would be so sore or that the baby might struggle to latch. I wanted to bf dd1, but because I didn't know any of that I ended up failing. My milk didnt cone in and Im grateful that formula was there when I was falling apart. It wasnt an 'easy alternative' though. Dd developed colic, she had lactose sensitivity and wouldn't drink more than an ounce of formula at a time. It was shit. Even when we got her on colief she never took much milk - 3 or 4o z at a time even at 4 months d. She dropped weight and I was told to wean her early. With dd2 I had the same lack of support but used the feeding forum on here and read a couple of books. Not because I'm militant about bf but because ff was so difficult with dd1 that I didn't want to encounter the same problems. If dd1 had fed well on formula I probably wouldn't have been so worried. I'm 5 weeks in and doing much better this time. My gorgeous, healthy, clever ff dd1 is amazing and so is my lovely bf dd2. I love them both, bonded with them both and will raise them both the same. I support all mums to make their own choices and enjoy being mums.

Whoever keeps perpetuating the myth that if you give up breastfeeding your baby will sleep through the night, and willing fall asleep for daddy, can take a running jump into a pile of dog poo.

It's nothing to do with the milk and its delivery format and everything to do with the child you have.

I gave up breastfeeding my second because I was ill and desperately wanted sleep. I just ended up with more work to do and a more expensive grocery bill.

How can what is essentially powdered milk cost a bloody fortune? Formula companies must be raking it in, and there is nothing we can do because once you start down the path of formula there is no going back. I deliberately breastfed my 3rd for a minimum of one year, because those greedy bastards were not going to see any of my hard earned cash.

In this country it's often those that can least afford to formula feed who often don't get very far breastfeeding. Then they have to go back to work and it's hard to express at work no matter what the law states. So many barriers, don't blame them for not wanting to try. Middle class mums have NCT groups and can afford additional support to establish BF, and they probably have longer at home too.

Less judging all round but let's not pretend formula isn't a bit of a goldmine for the likes of Danone (cow and gate).

Btw tongue tie can cause bad reflux, as the tongues movement aids digestion and IMO formula fed babies should be treated too. An example of how a BF baby is seen as more deserving.

I think what gets left out of discussions is breastfeeding advocates also advocate for improved infant feeding practices.

A recent example being some research out of Australia that showed bottle markers were wrong some by as much as a third. This is hugely important for babies who are formula fed as that means the water/powder ratio is out and that's dangerous.

Guess who is calling for there to be tighter control. Yep breastfeeding advocates.

The WHO code is another area. It protects parents and infants from dangerous marketing practices. There's the codex too. These things were taught for by breastfeeding advocates for the health of babies and mothers

ICJump I know plenty of formula feeders who don't seem to want To understand the importance of using a level spoon, the importance of making bottles with boiling water or the need to sterilise bottles up to one year old. Btw this is not the same as not knowing these behaviours are risky, it's the ones who know but don't seem to care.

I have formula fed and breast fed and will not judge a mother on the milk they use, but I do judge anyone (male or female) who takes a gamble that their baby won't get poorly because they can't be bothered to make a bottle up right. Formula powder is not sterile. There were pictures floating around Facebook the other day of people who had found dead insects In their formula powder, warning others to be careful.

I'm a peer supporter and I support the right of mothers to choose how they feed their baby. I cannot influence their decision although many of my peers do push it a bit too far sometimes. I find they mostly have never had that many barriers in their way, and I will call them on it if they get a bit too militant.

I think the message is "if you can, you should". The problem is, what defines "can"? Pure ability to produce milk? A latch that isn't too painful? How much pain is acceptable? What about sleep deprivation? Another child needing your attention? Which are "acceptable" reasons for not breastfeeding?

Everyone wants the best for their child. Some mothers have it easier and some grit their teeth and try harder. Those who don't breastfeed for whatever reason, often seem to carry around guilt that maybe they didn't try hard enough, even when they made a considered decision at the time. That can manifest itself as jealousy or ill will towards those who do breastfeed, as subconsciously they can be perceived as more willing to go the extra mile for their child (even though some women find breastfeeding effortless and many will never have to try as hard as the women who tried and quit).

Make peace with your choice or circumstance - you have done the best you could do with the resources you have available to you. So has everyone else.

"I think the message is "if you can, you should". The problem is, what defines "can"? Pure ability to produce milk? A latch that isn't too painful? How much pain is acceptable? What about sleep deprivation? Another child needing your attention? Which are "acceptable" reasons for not breastfeeding?"

The things which are considered huge barriers to breastfeeding in the UK aren't considered barriers to women in other countries, so I think we have to accept that people's 'ability' to breastfeed is shaped by culture rather than biology.

Would have to point out BTW, that as someone who has had several children very close in age, all breastfed, and no outside help, that breastfeeding a baby doesn't stop you caring for other children. In fact it gives you a free arm to cuddle a toddler or hold a book, and can often be done on the move. Re: sleep deprivation, have a read of this: sleep

I think the support is out there and can be good but you have to reach out for it.

It largely varies on area. My area has much better support now than it did almost 3 years ago when I had my DD.

Saying "reach out for it" is all well and good but we're talking about women at one of the most vulnerable points of their lives here. I was 19, being kept in because they were deciding whether or not to give me a blood transfusion, I'd laboured for three days and given birth in the space of three pushes, DD had come along early anyway so I was a bit shell-shocked for it all... I could have no more "reached out" for support than I could run a marathon at that point, any requests for help were ignored.

It's dismissive to say that those who don't get support just haven't reached out enough for it.