Fed is Best!!!!!!

[HotDawg123]

If you choose to breast feed - good for you
If you choose to bottle feed - good for you
But if you choose to be a breast feeding warrior and look at those who choose to bottle feed as scum then I hope you slip in dog shit tomorrow.

The amount of horrible women I've come across who are like this is too many now. And as I am heavily pregnant and have hormone rage it is really pissing me off.

Thank you for listening.

"Oh and the 1% thing - what a load of claptrap. Perhaps only 1% of mothers physically can't produce milk, but there is a host of factors that means to BF would be so hard as to make it practically impossible. The analogy would be that I CAN get to the moon"

Alternatively you could just go to Norway. ;-)

99% of mums leave hospital breastfeeding there and 80% are still going at 6 months. And that's in a culture where formula is affordable and widely available.

UK breastfeeding fallout rates are some of the worst in the world. Some of that will be down to poor support but a lot of it will be a cultural resistance to breastfeeding - as evidenced by this thread: a belief that formula is 'fine' and that adult choices matter more than optimal nutrition for babies. And before anyone freaks out about that - choice relating to feeding simply isn't discussed in many other cultures the way it is here. I have been told by mothers from Norway that it's assumed that everyone will breastfeed, and pretty much everyone does, at least to start with.

"Also, as a cost/benefit analysis, do the benefits of BF outweigh the mental and physical health of mother and child?"

Depends how well breastfeeding works and whether continuing breastfeeding makes the mother postnatal depressed.

tea That is not the point I am making. I think you're probably fully aware of that. No one should be made to feel guilty about how they feed their baby. Both BF and FF are fine. Only total wankers comment on someone's feeding choice (if it is a choice). I would be interested in the link between the breast is best message and rates of PND amongst failed breast feeders.

Some of the things being said on this thread by BF advocates are at best unsympathetic and at worst a calculated witch hunt of total c**tery.

This is the main issue with the breast feeding advocacy. Many of the people offering help/support/opinions don't seem to have struggled
That's total bollocks! All the breastfeeding peer supporters I know do so either because they struggled and found the support lacking, or had support for problems and found it invaluable

What a belittling attitude "oh if you think breast is best its because you don't get it". No. Lots of people who struggled with BFing issues they had to overcome are fierce BFing advocates

People who campaign for better breastfeeding rates are campaigning on behalf of those who need more support with feeding issues

And I hope you all know that this line of people who are critical of the UKs poor feeding rates being involved in "mummy wars" is a marketing campaign used by formula companies to belittle anyone who tries to improve breastfeeding rates

People who work to improve the UKs breastfeeding rates are not "having a go at mums" - they're doing the opposite.

That's the point mini there is a section of posters on here who seem to be BF at all costs. Where do you draw the line? How I'll does the baby have to be? How mentally damaged will you let mum get?

I'm not being dramatic but this last year has been an eye opener. I've seen a dear fri be driven into terrible PND by trying desperately to BF a baby that wouldn't be BF'd while all of the BF support people just let her get on with it. Not one of them point out that it wouldn't be a capital crime to switch to FF if the baby was still losing weight and mum was pumping 24/7 to maintain supply. The health visitor had to gently persuade her that formula was ok and that she'd tried enough. And to my mind she was the only one with their actual welfare in mind. Non of the lactation consultant or the peer to peer supporters actually did anything helpful. They just trotted out platitudes like 'breast feeding is so natural' and 'she'll get the hang of it'. I am so angry on her behalf.

@OohNoDooEy

Great link, thank you!

I felt like such a failure when my milk just didn't come in for so many weeks, yet saw the 1% stat and was taken in by it. But, historically, I'm sure the women who had problems feeding would have been higher than 1%.
A fair percentage of mothers and/or babies wouldn't have survived long enough after birth for feeding to be an issue (in pre C section days). Infant and maternal mortality was high. So was 'failure to thrive'.
Upper class women gave their babies to wet nurses, who by definition, had to have a good supply (but goodness knows what happened to the wet nurse's own baby).
The majority of women would be living in close communities where, if you did have a supply problem a sister, cousin, even your own mother, would also be feeding an infant and so could 'help out'.

Where does the 1% stat come from? Also, nowadays there are many more mothers who would never once have been mothers and therefore would never once have known whether there was a BF problem or not. I'm thinking women with fertility problems, or who are older, or have suffered recurrent miscarriages. I was told that PCOS could affect milk supply (again, wish I'd known that in advance).

adult choices matter more than optimal nutrition for babies.

Yep. That's pretty much how it is in this house

(That wasn't Sarcastic btw, it genuinely is)

@NannyOggsKnickers

I took part in research last year from Swansea University about breastfeeding trauma and it's repercussions and how it affected breastfeeding rates. I'm unsure if anything has been published yet. I also took part in some research by Coventry University about breastfeeding education.

They just trotted out platitudes like 'breast feeding is so natural' and 'she'll get the hang of it'. I am so angry on her behalf.

So she had poor breastfeeding support. Surely the best case scenario that should have happened here would have been better or at least half decent breast feeding help, not sooner advice to FF?

Maybe you are Tinsel but that has not been my experience. I have found 'breast is best' to be incredibly damaging. I have no issue with BFing - I did it (after a massive struggle). My point is that peer to peer support is patchy. That attitude on this thread are awful and that forcing breast feeding on new mothers is quite frankly anti-feminist and wrong. In fact it is just as bad as insisting on FF, as was the done thing years ago.

Who the fuck are you to decide what is morally right for me to do with my body? How dare anyone judge another mother based on something that they might have no control over? By using 'breast is best' BF advocates are falling into the trap set for them by the formula companies. If that's what it is.

minifingerz: That doesn't make it a good thing. There is a point, surely, where the assumption that a woman will breastfeed, however painful or inconvenient for her, however difficult it is for the baby, is counterproductive?

Nanny Your friend's situation doesn't sound good at all and she should have had access to better advice and support. But that doesn't justify vilifying those who BF and those who promote or support BF.

No Tinsel. She had great support. They did everything they could. The issue is that they did not morally feel they could suggest FF when they had reached the end of their skills and the baby was still falling the the bottom of the centile chart and not taking full feeds from mum. It is totally fucking disgraceful to put your opinions above the health and well being of mother and child. This is the trap the BF lobby has fallen into. I have argued before that it should be feeding support and not just BF support because BF is not always the right solution for every mother and baby.

I'm not vilifying anyone. I am pointing out the major moral flaw in the way in which BF support is currently rolled out. There needs to be a change in attitudes, on both sides. The current practise just helps to set divides between BF and FF mums. Something needs to change. I don't want to see other women going through the same ordeal as my friend.

@tinseltowers

But formula marketing is so tightly controlled- I was furious when I went on a formula manufacturers website to check I was making it up right (because I'd planned to EBF I had no idea how to make up formula), and having to read a page and tick a box to say I understood that formula feeding would reduce my supply- when I was only formula feeding because my supply wasn't there to start with!

Meanwhile, at the breastfeeding class I did we were told:

• Breastfeeding is enjoyable (not my experience)
• Breastfeeding helps you bond with your baby (I found the opposite)
• Nipples are the colour they are so that babies can find them easily (how do black babies manage then?)
• If you give any formula your supply will reduce (no, opposite happened)
• Breastfeeding is cheaper (no, by the time you've bought bras, a few tops, all the extra food for the calories, pump etc it isn't)
• Breastfed babies don't need burping (my combi fed one needed burping after any feed!)
• Introducing a bottle will cause nipple confusion (nope, not my experience)
• Breastfed babies have fewer stomach upsets and ear infections (mine hasn't had any. EBF cousin has had several!)

Yes, this is my personal experience, but I resent being told a lot of non-evidence-based rubbish to promote breastfeeding, which wouldn't be allowed if it was a product that was sold.

(If it was a product that was sold I'd be demanding my money back cos it really doesn't live up to expectations!)

My point is that peer to peer support is patchy. That attitude on this thread are awful and that forcing breast feeding on new mothers is quite frankly anti-feminist and wrong. In fact it is just as bad as insisting on FF, as was the done thing years ago.
Yes, breastfeeding support is inadequate in the UK! Yes! that's the point! and THAT is anti-feminist, because if men breastfed I'ld bet you that "lactitcian" would be a presitgious medical speciality and not a patchy volunteer run ad-hoc service (with no weekend support in my area, I was discharged on a friday!) - the answer to that is NOT to accept that our BFing rates are okay, it is to say that they are NOT okay and we need better BFing services

Who the fuck are you to decide what is morally right for me to do with my body? When your choices are limited by living in a society with rubbish BFing rates, its not those who are campaigning for better rates who are taking away your choices!

How dare anyone judge another mother based on something that they might have no control over? By using 'breast is best' BF advocates are falling into the trap set for them by the formula companies. If that's what it is. Breast IS best, thats a fact. See the WHO website for clarification if you need to. What has been used as a marketing campaign by formula companies is the idea that promoting better BFing rates = causing "mommy wars" (ironically they use this to promote themselves)

People who do campaign for better breastfeeding rates, I really do wonder why. Why are other people so invested in how other people feed their children to the point of 'campaigning' (whatever they entails)

Yes, this is my personal experience, but I resent being told a lot of non-evidence-based rubbish to promote breastfeeding, which wouldn't be allowed if it was a product that was sold.

NOBODY is argueing that BFing support is awesome in the UK, it's OBVIOUSLY patchy at best, and often totally rubbish - however the solution to this is women demanding better support not women saying that we should all accept shitty BFing rates so long as babies are fed!

People who do campaign for better breastfeeding rates, I really do wonder why. Why are other people so invested in how other people feed their children to the point of 'campaigning' (whatever they entails)

You're buying the bollocks from the formula companies if you think women are campaigning against other women who didn't/couldn't/wouldn't breast-feed. Women are campaigning against the system that lets so many women and childreen down.

I don't think people are campaigning against other women. When did I say that?!

I mean people who want better rates in this country full stop.

Calm down dude

Breastfeeding can be hard and timely support and intervention is much needed. There is a lot of misinformation and too many mum's doubt themselves over things that are actually perfectly normal and part of the process of mum and baby learning this new skill. Many give up because they mistakenly believe it should be easy/baby isn't getting enough etc. I think a lot of this stems from a lost generation of breastfeeders so the practical real life experience has not been passed on. It saddens me that some miss out on a wonderful experience because they lack real support or don't have adequate maternity leave provision for example. Breast isn't always possible and for that reason formula should be widely available without judgment or shame. Women are perfectly capable of making their own judgment on what is best in their own circumstances. We should be compassionate to one another and understand people's choices and limitations. This perpetual patriarchal myth that women are incapable of making the right choice saddens me. It is the same with abortion, vaginal v cesearan birth etc. The rhetoric is dangerous and women should not be playing along with it. My body, my decision is the only way. OP no judgement here and I am am sorry you have experienced that.

Breastfeeding or not is a personal choice, so I can't see why any other people, man or woman, would be invested enough in it that they would feel the need to 'campaign' or do whatever they do in order to try and raise breastfeeding rates. I don't get it. I'm allowed to not get it... Or are you going to jump on me again

Why would you not want better BF rates? Just in the same way people generally want lower rates of obesity or better rates of reoffending after prison - it's better (so science tells us in this case) for our society as a whole.

Breastfeeding or not is a personal choice
It's not a choice made in a vacuum. It's not a choice at all if education and support is inadequate.

Can you seriously not understand people wanting better outcomes and services for women and children?