Can't bear this anymore, is termination at 15 16 weeks just going to make it all worse?

[Sleeplessinnorthlondon]

I'm going to delete my profile soon as so ashamed of all of what's happened but desperate for any advice anyone can offer. In summary, conceived when thought couldn't, just about to start ivf, and didn't know. Had two different due dates from different scans but looks like could have drunk heavily 16, 17 and 18 dpo. Stopped as soon as found out but can't shake the guilt despite doctors all telling me it would probably be fine. Would never have terminated for downs or any condition the child was going to have anyway, but cannot bear idea of having spoilt life chances of child that would have been healthy through stupidity. Tried counselling, midwife, friends, all been so kind but can't shake terror and guilt and suspect will never shift and will be terrible mother when born as so anxious and guilty. Just can't bear any of this any more, none of the help I've tried to access is working and Marie stopes have said they can organise an abortion this week. Will mean hurting friends, family and above all darling darling husband but he has said will support me if it's the only way forward. So so desolate and terrified, everyone around me saying this is mental health issue not physical and probably right but in no state to bring child into the world like this anyway. Has anyone been in the same boat? Did the termination help or make it worse? Please help me.

Good luck sleepless I hope you get the support you need.

You are doing really really well. Well done.

Threads like this remind me that Mumsnet is completely amazing, as are you sleepless. I suffered from anxiety during my 1st pregnancy, not as severe but still completely panicking about all the stuff I couldn't control with my pregnancy and unborn baby.

By day I was a high flying career girl, able to cope with anything, by night I was an excessive googler, looking for any shred of evidence that my fears were relevant whilst ignoring anything that said otherwise. Pregnancy can make you feel completely out of control. You're stronger than you give yourself credit for sleepless, I was too scared to even seek help and ended up being signed off work towards the end of my pregnancy with severe stress.

Good luck and sending , I hope we continue hearing from you on this pregnancy thread for many months to come

sleepless I've just been reading through the huge amount of response you have regarding your topic.

it's clear that no amount of comments from these lovely ladies is going to make you realise that everything is going to be OK! I can honestly tell you that on more than one occasion I drank extremely heavily on a few nights out before I realised I was pregnant. Am I worried? No I'm not because I know that at the time nothing was being shared with my baby. Do I think I'm a bad mum? No I don't because I didn't even know! Would I terminate my baby based on the knowledge that I got drunk a few nights when I didn't know I was pregnant? No, that would not be enough for me to terminate. Your considering terminating your long wanted baby on a feeling that your paranoid it could have possibly been effected.

No one can tell you what to do... However reading through these HUGE amount of comments from mums sharing their same experiences, myself included, I would say you're going to be just fine.

Well done OP, you sound so much brighter and lighter. Seeking help is such an important step. If you find yourself slipping back into familiar thought patterns, come back to this thread and read your own posts and remember how you felt when you wrote them. In fact, maybe make a note now of your new optimism. The positive feelings are real and true and valid - the anxiety and guilt and terror, although real, were false and invalid, based on flawed logic.

Good luck with the next steps. You can do it.

Well done, sleepless

sleepless I'm so pleased you have sought help and been listened to and I'm delighted you've opened up to friends too. You will get through this worry and when your beautiful son or daughter is born you will realise just how precious they are and what an amazing gift you were given.

Lots of hugs from me xx

I suffered badly from OCD whilst pregnant. I struggled on for months with intrusive thoughts until I admitted all to to GP who referred me to perinatal mental health team and put me on sertraline. It was a life line and I was better within- no exaggeration- less than a week.

Sleepless you are a champ. You've taken the first steps to getting yourself back. Talking therapy has a great evidence base and is a good start!
I'm a supporter of antidepressants for severe OCD as I've seen them switch symptoms off pretty quickly. However it's your choice to make once you've seen the perinatal doctor. I wish you all the very best

You've made brilliant progress sleepless, hopefully talking it through with the psychiatrist will help you clear your mind. Keeping busy sounds like a good plan. You're always welcome back on the antenatal thread when you're ready to, or to join us once baby is here x

OP I'm glad you are getting help and wanted to offer you an extra hand to hold.

I'm lying listening to my baby make daft noises in her sleep. She was conceived after nearly 2 years TTC and on a cycle of clomid. I was having a really difficult time emotionally with our failure to conceive and we had booked a last minute holiday to escape. I was drinking beer and cocktails the whole time. I then realised I was pregnant and ended up with some pretty hefty HG medication I had to take round the clock.

She is totally fine. I think the fact that you were on your way to fertility treatment is certainly not going to help any anxiety.

You've been through a lot. I really hope you get the treatment to help you see this pregnancy too. Keep talking to your DH, don't suffer alone. You've been through a lot in the run up to this pregnancy so please recognise that you need looked after

I have been following this thread and wanted to say well done for seeking help and gaining the support you need.

Please please do not feel as though you'd be 'inflicting self on child'. My sister had psychosis after her daughter was born and as a family we got through. She is doing amazingly now and the bond she has with my niece is irreplaceable. I know it's not the same as having this level of anxiety in pregnancy but had we seen the future when she was pregnant then of course we would have been so nervous about her having a child.
Nothing can ever be predicted when you have a baby, particularly in terms of mental health, but there is so much support you can receive if you seek it early on. Early intervention is so important and you'll be able to work through this.

I know that everyone saying the baby will be fine won't really help too much at the moment as your anxiety is not something that you will have full control of at all times, and it will be taking over, but please take peace in the fact that I have seen and heard of many who have done a lot more in their pregnancy and their baby's have been fine.

Well done again and keep going. You're doing so well. x

I hope tomorrow goes well sleepless

Just been reading your post. I really feel for you. I have always suffered from MH problems, but when I fell pregnant with my second child (born 2 weeks ago) I was a mess. Diagnosed with severe depression, and my other MH problems just got worse. It was awful but I got help and I got through it. I also drank really heavily on 3 occasions when I was pregnant and didn't know. The doctors are not allowed to tell you that everything will be 100% ok in a pregnancy (even though they know deep down it will be) on the very extremely small off chance that all
Isn't perfect. But in regards to the amount of alcohol you have had I KNOW that will not have affected your baby. And all these sites and statistics and studies your looking at
Are all
Nonsense. FAS is not caused by drinking in early pregnancy before you are even aware. I'd argue this fact with any "professional". I Know hundreds of women who have drank before they knew they were pregnant and ALL
Their children were born healthy. Honestly I know you said it was pointless anyone telling you this but
I'm saying it anyway. I really hope you get help and I hope to hear/see posts about your beautiful little baby in a few months time xx take care and all the very best. Ps. Prenatal depression and MH problems are horrible. I honestly know what your going through but I swear there is light at the end of the tunnel. I actually questioned continuing my pregnancy at one point to. Now my beautiful girl is here, I feel sick even thinking I considered not havin her. Just you wait ... Ur bubs will be fine xxx

Thanks again to all of you. Feeling very nervous and generally guilty today. Told my mum had considered termination and in fact that have one booked, esrliest I could get for next Tuesday morning. She was beyond devastated and told my father both of whom are now clearly heart broken. Regretting ever having mentioned this to her as just made her so sad. Dh still so so calm and supportive. I am rally trying to rule out termination, so much, just does, for all the reasons so insightfully listed here probably eg ocd etc feel like the only option with certainty attached. I am partly struggling with the argument from doctors that there's no evidence I could have harmed baby. My fear is that that weekend my drinking levels were more consistent with an alcoholic who wouldn't stop so would come up in other studies rather than a typical binge drinker - worked out probably had 30 units on Sunday, on top of close to that Friday and another ten Saturday. Sixteen days after fertilisation (Friday) the embryo is fully implanted and sharing blood supply, the yolk sack doesn't protect it I've checked this out at some length. Organs haven't started to develop but cells have started to specialise, it seems so so unlikely damage impossible and do find all the cases listed here comforting but I might not be so lucky. Not trying to be negative here or ungrateful, just think spent months pretending to be doing better than was in hope would convince self and it would pass but as it hasn't and things have got worse think I must be honest or it will all keep getting worse. Going to run all biological fears past fetal medicine people, fact that my family think this is mental past the therapist and see what progress we make. Will post again tonight when all appts finished, thank you all, mumsnet is the kindest place I know. Xxxxxxx

Sleepless - I still echo that you need some MH treatment, but doesn't it make more sense to try and get a fetal DNA test or other more detailed developmental testing done first, before deciding that you need a termination? The fact that you think booking a termination in before pursuing these options is a clear sign that you are not thinking rationally.

I'm also wondering what you think is so wrong about having a child who might have some minor issues? No matter what you have Googled, the extremely small risk of damage would be incredibly minor given the stage of pregnancy and the fact that it wasn't habitual drinking behavior. Why is termination the ONLY option and maybe you need to seriously explore what makes you think this way. Again, it is not rational.

PLEASE stop Googling, you are not a doctor, you do not know how to analyze the information you are reading. Ask your husband/family/friends to take your internet away if necessary. You are stressing yourself out and that's not a good thing.

sleepless Your baby NEVER shares your blood supply. This is a fact.

You keep repeating this but it simply is not true.

If the baby shared the mothers blood supply there would be no need for a placenta and all babies would have the same blood type as their mothers.

You drank for 3 DAYS at a time where there was no link via placenta between you and your baby. An alcoholic would drink at volumes for the entire pregnancy with alcohol transferring to the baby through the placenta constantly.

There is no certainty in life - looking for certainty is a symptom of OCD and other anxiety disorders.

You can't and won't find certainty in life in general and have to learn through therapy to tolerate and cope with uncertainty. This is not only possible, it's actually pretty easy once you get started.

Please print your last post out and take it with you to the doctor so they can explain this to you clearly.

Good luck with everything - we are all here and looking forward to hearing that your are starting to feel better. x

The fetal medicine centre will do a scan but it won't rule out a risk. I booked the appt at weekend when was particularly low, it's not for a week but can't bring self to cancel it. Truly, truly would never have had doubts about raising child with difficulties, teach and love many, it's the fear it would have been me that inflicted them that I just can't bear, I've abused it before it's even born. At this stage dh could bear termination and parents could come round, also personally don't believe quite yet child although not far off, think the person that would really suffer would be me and think I deserve that after all of this. Could take time to get help and support then to get mind settled and prepared and see if we were lucky again. Maybe we would be, maybe we wouldn't be and either way I would have to live with that. Really will give today and Friday appt a go, feeling up and down all the time and unfortunately in mornings often down as prospect of another day facing this makes me so unhappy.

Sleepless I've been following your thread and agree totally with newbian and all the others that have posted here. I drank very similar amounts to you over Christmas and then found out I was pregnant with DD2. I was also about to embark on private IVF treatment as my DH and I discovered we had fertility problems after 2 years of trying to conceive our second baby. I was very depressed over the holidays (hence the heavy drinking) thinking we may never have another child.

I am now 24 weeks and baby is perfect so far. I also drank like a fish around the time I conceived DD1 - to the point where I was vomiting! Almost everyone I know was drinking (in some cases heavily) when they conceived and every single one of their children are more than fine.

I'd also like to tell you that I take medication for a minor heart condition - taking this tablet can case growth restriction in a very very small number of cases. And even with that, DD1 was a large girl who wouldn't budge so ended up with emcs. DD2 is measuring just above average in my scan. People take all sorts of things in pregnancy with no problems.

It is hard to think clearly through anxiety and all I can say is to implore you to get fully checked out, DNA test if needed because terminating a healthy baby will not solve this. And like newbian said, even if you did have a child with minor issues, does that warrant termination? Habitual heavy drinking causes problems (and even then sometimes babies are still born fine). This is a miracle baby and from what I understand, one you didn't think would happen without intervention. Please just wait a little a longer, cancel your termination booking, and give yourself a good chance to work through this.

Sleepless, this is such a tough time and all of this is so new, it is all a bit of a rollercoaster at the moment as your mind is still trying hard to convince you this alcohol consumption is a problem. This is the key to OCD. So your fear that the baby is unsafe or that you have harmed your baby and you are unworthy of a happy outcome is the obsession and your desire to seek reassurance that you haven't is the compulsion that arises because this feels so bad.

What happens is OCD with reassurance seeking is that your mind, like all minds being a problem solving machine, is generating ways of making the horrible feeling of uncertainty and what it means in the context of this pregnancy (that you can't have a happy outcome, that you are unworthy of a happy outcome or won't be able to survive a sad one) go away. So you feel this huge urge to seek certainty and reassurance that you haven't harmed your baby by drinking.

The thing is that your real problem is emotional, even though your mind is fixating on the drinking issue. And though the mind is really good at solving problems in the real world, it really is crap at fixing emotions. So it is fighting a battle it isn't equipped to win. It tells you seeking reassurance will make you feel better, but actually, you end up feeling worse.

So it goes like this:
Feel terrible, uncertain.
Seek reassurance to stop the terrible feeling by asking people online to reassure you or consulting with medical professionals again and again about the same fear.
Get reassurance.
Feel better for a second sometimes, reinforcing the idea that the problem is the specifics of your fear e.g. related to drinking for you
Feeling terrible still there
Mind ramps it up: okay, so that obviously wasn't enough reassurance to make you feel better, let's look for more.. or in your case also, look this is obviously not working, you just need to end this pregnancy to feel better.

The mind is just not qualified to make you feel better so it's a bit like an unqualified person doing surgery. It can pick up the tools for solving the problem by asking you to seek help, but it's applying them to the wrong issue. You need help with worry and with your 'I'm not good enough to keep a baby safe and live a happy life' story. The obsession about alcohol consumption is just smoke and mirrors.

And we all have an I'm not good enough story, so you are not some freak for having it. You are clearly just desperate to have a baby and terrified it's not going to happen. This makes you absolutely caring and loving but just in great pain, which is understandable when you've been facing the threat of infertility.

OCD like thinking (whether you get this diagnosis or not, as obsessional thinking is part of many patterns of human distress) is born of stress and the structure of the human mind and how we respond to prolonged stress and fear over a period of time and can be triggered in many women by hormones. Many women with OCD will have their first episode in pregnancy.

Obsessional thinking always hits the things that matter the most. It is poured from the same vessel as your love for and desire for a happy life with a healthy child. Your mind just doesn't know how to make you feel better and you need a little help which you are going to get.

Thinking of you xx

This is OCD. Compulsive and intrusive negative thoughts. I had the same in pregnancy. Rational arguments will not work here so there's no point pointing out the baby will be fine as the OP just won't accept it.

I don't know what to do but I feel desperate about this thread - I can only urge the OP to google OCD instead of fetal alcohol syndrome and realise this is what she is suffering from. It ruined my pregnancy but I can't imagine how utterly destroyed I would have been if I'd terminated because of it.

OP please please seek help. Things can be done.

Diplodon - crossed - brilliant explanation of OCD.

Oh and I meant to say every time you read a story here of how someone drank or took medication in pregnancy you will automatically discount it as not applicable to you. Hello, obsession! This is what obsession does. If 100 million women told you that they had the same amount of alcohol you did and delivered healthy babies, if the best fetal medicine experts in the world told you that your baby was safe, obsession would still say: 'yeah but not but...' and concoct some way of convincing you this doesn't work in your case. It's the little voice that doubts everything and comes up with a 'what if' for everything.

I'm really going to try. Thing is, lots of these stories are are about drinking around conception and everything I can find says that's fine, even for up to 14 days after , just not as far as I went. Have seen some where things were ok, and those do provide comfort. Going to really, really give today a go, promise!!!!

A lot of the stories (mine included) are about drinking at 5-6 weeks pregnant but your mind is blocking these ones out.