Noisy toddler next door

[Sukie272]

I live in a small flat and my next-door neighbours have a toddler who is about 2. This child seems to stay up all night as well as most of the day- he screams, cries, yells, bangs toys on the walls and runs around their flat constantly, until around 3am.
The walls are very thin, so he wakes me up repeatedly. After 6 months of being woken 4-5 times a night (the sound of him running on hardwood floors sounds like someone is hamnering nails into the floor) I complained to landlord. He agreed this level of noise at night is unacceptable and spoke to the family. For a few weeks the noise calmed down and they seemed to make an effort to keep him away from the partition wall at night, but now the noise is unbearable again.
I've tried politely talking to the parents (who are Eastern European and don't speak much English), I've also put leaflets under their door about SureStart and other sources of help. At times I bang on the wall in desperation. I just want some peace and quiet!
Is it normal for a 2-year-old to cry for several hours every day, and to run around screaming for hours at a time, several times a night? I'm worried he may be being abused/neglected... should I contact Social Services? The parents rarely take him out of the flat, so maybe he is just bored?
I'm in first trimester of pregnancy and currently off work sick, so I can't escape the noise even in the daytime. I feel so angry that these people let their child cause such a disturbance! Earplugs make little difference, and I can hear him in every room in my flat, even though my bedroom is not next to the partition wall.
What can I do about this? Does anyone have a similar experience?

Amantes... ROFL... words fail me! What planet were you on when you composed this?
Expecting more than 3 hours uninterrupted sleep each night is clearly 'putting my wishes above everyone else's', as is the desire for occasional quiet periods during the day to relax, read and study. How 'unacceptable' and 'unreasonable' of me to want a decent night's sleep in my own flat! How 'precious and presumptuous' of me to 'exert needy control' over my neighbours by asking them to reduce noise at night.
We all have a right to relax in our homes, and a responsibility not to disturb neighbours if we can help it. Clearly this 'incredible expectation' is very unrealistic! Thanks for the laughs!

And yes I have lived with other adults, including a family with 2 young children, and several years in student halls. And no, I was not kept awake every night by excessive relentless noise.

YouAreMyRain because it's the decent thing to do, considering the impact it has on her daily life.

Weeblueberry...

I do take on board your point about most parents doing everything in their power to establish good sleep routines. And I can imagine how frustrating it is if you've tried everything under the sun but nothing works, and people keep making (well-meaning) suggestions that you have already tried countless times. I also doubt these people are trying to annoy you on purpose.

I like your analogy to people suggesting ginger biscuits as a morning-sickness cure. I get this 'advice' a lot! Following a recent hospital admission and strong meds for HG, I have lost count of the number of friends and colleagues who have suggested I try ginger biscuits! Yes it gets irritating, but I try not to show it. I smile and explain, yes I've tried that but it didn't work for me. I would never ridicule someone for making a suggestion, even if it's misguided or the 100th time I've heard it. They mean well. They are trying to help. Most of them don't understand the difference between morning sickness and HG, but why should they? Some have never been pregnant, others had minor sickness only. They don't know I tried every home-ready available before seeking professional help.
Although some of my colleagues have never been pregnant, they are all eager to share pregnancy advice they have gleaned from friends/family, books, TV. Should I exclude them from discussions and invalidate their advice just because they don't have firsthand experience of pregnancy? No... that would be snobbish and unkind. And maybe I can learn something from them....maybe one of them has picked up a piece of wisdom that might help.

I'm honestly not suggesting you ridicule anyone for suggesting - just that it can become very trying hearing the same thing over and over. I don't think not having experienced someone first hand makes you ignorant to possible solutions but it's definitely more difficult to accept. I agree with the posters who have said responses like 'oh just you wait' aren't helpful because they're coming across just as snotty and holier than thou as they're claiming you are imo.

I'm able to see this problem a little from both sides because while I have a toddler (who thankfully sleeps well but does have the occasional tantrum while we're out etc) we also have an upstairs neighbour (and we're in an old terraced house) who constantly plays his guitar which I find particularly loud. I'm finding there's little I can do because we know he uses this as a crutch for his mental health issues and so, like you, I'm in a situation where I'm sort of damned if I do and damned if I don't. I've spoken to him and he's taken basic measures to stop but nothing that has made a real impact. So I do get what it's like to be woken and disturbed by something that feels out of your control.

I do hope things let up. Both for you and for the little one and his family. It's just not a nice situation for anyone to be in and I understand how it feels to not be able to do anything at all about the situation but still be affected by it.

Srsly? People think its acceptable for parents to ignore (no signs of any interference from parents) a toddler screaming and running around every night for 6 months????

Or - in lieu of ignoring - the OP has to go to the cost and hassle of moving because her neighbours allow this behaviour to carry on?

I have a 18 month old and I would be mortified if he was behaving in this way. If he cries at night or is disturbed at all its my responsibility as a parent to calm him down.

Whoever said up there about the social contract - being a reasonable member of society was bang on.

..or even previous children

So, you are only intending to have one child then almost certainly for the best.

I'm very pleased your one friend managed a laugh too. Knowing someone like you in RL, is, I am sure, incredibly stressful.

Confused? Fuck no. I get on just fine with my neighbours and they with me and my four children. We don't each sit at home whining, whittling and bitching about each other, you see. We live and let live. Hardly a confusing concept - for all but you, it seems.

Boosiehs... well said! I agree with your comments completely.

Kinkytoes, yes it would have been nice if the parents had responded in some way when I first approached them, or replied to the friendly card I sent later (which included my contact details and an invitation to come round and discuss the problem if they wanted to). A bit of empathy goes a long way, on both sides. It's possible they didn't respond because of the language barrier.
I think neighbours would always be more understanding and tolerant if the parents make contact, even if it's just a quick apology for the noise, or to say they are trying to sleep-train. And if the child does have special needs, most neighbours would be far more understanding if they are informed of this.

Jeez theres some bloody weird selfish people on this thread. So so glad I live in a detached house.

Good grief! why has op's reply to Amantes' hideously goady and bitchy posts been deleted? Surely hq have got that the wrong way round?

Goodness knows why. Why has it been deleted MNHQ?

Yeah don't feed the troll guys. Interesting first and only post op.

At least you know you won't be disturbing your neighbours when your baby is screaming its head off at 3am! Every cloud!!!

Amantes...
I'm sure you and your neighbour are a joy to the rest of your street. How lucky that you found someone so similar, who doesn't care how much noise and disturbance your children cause, and has no expectations of neighbourly conduct (in contrast to most of society). Of course, why should either of you have any respect or consideration for other people? I'm sure your offspring will inherit your excellent manners and positive social charm.

Mintyy and Dancing Dinosaur, I think it was because I mentioned she was trolling! Just read the guidelines, apparently 'troll-hunting' is banned on here.

People on here have been really nasty. It's not beyond the realms of possibility to expect people to at least try to minimise the noise their child makes. A child crying for that length of time isn't normal - sorry but it isn't.

Your choice to have a child means that you have to accept at some point you may be sleep deprived, but that doesn't mean that the person living next door should go without sleep too.

And amantes it is not unreasonable to expect people to try and minimise noise when it gets to the extent of you not being able to sleep properly. If I decided to put my tv on the party wall, I would fully expect my neighbours to complain. That wouldn't be them being controlling or precious, it would be them wanting some quiet.

When you live next door to people in such close quarters the polite and moral thing to do is reduce noise in all that you can, or when there is going to be noise either tell neighbours to anticipate it (i.e. building works) or in the case of a baby crying night after night at least a kind word or apology.

Op, neighbours, plural, meaning two or more. I consider the people several houses away, my neighbours. Everyone here gets on just fine, probably just short of eighty people. Bar one but that's beside the point ...or maybe it isn't.

Nice try though!

Joyfully, quite right! But its been so quiet at home today, despite my allegedly raucous, socially inept household and similarly inclined 'neighbour', that it's verged on boring

I have a similar experience when our old neighbours were doing 'controlled crying'. It was crazy loud and very thin walls, I didn't feel I could complain cos...y'know...babies...but I did check out with some mum colleagues whether it was normal which is how I came to find out what controlled crying was. I'm admit it crossed my mind that the child was neglected too until I found out it was just a technique people did. We never mentioned it to the neighbours because didn't feel we could complain about the noise without implicitly criticising their parenting. Which people tend to react quite negatively too lol! Ironically after the baby calmed down and we could sleep the neighbours complained direct to our landlord about my husband opening and closing doors when he came in off the late shift. Which we took no notice of because ...y'now...work. What I'm guessing I'm saying is that whilst a level of understanding is nice, sometimes it's just thin walls = learn to live with other ppls lifestyles. I do hope you and the toddler's parents get some peace soon OP.

It isn't normal for toddlers to be running about through the night.

I have two DC, both terrible sleepers. They certainly did not run around at 3am when they woke.

OP yanbu. I wouldn't know what to do tbh!

Perhaps your neighbors don't say anything to you Amantes. Not because they're happy with your noise, but because they don't want their ear chewed off by you and your determination to be in the right. you're one of those neighbors clearly

Why are you following ops assumption that my family are particularly noisy, Dancing? Rtft

Well, less of an assumption and more of a fabrication, actually