Friend on phone in tears over sex of baby. What do I do?

[virgiltracey]

So my friend discovered the sex of her baby today and is having a boy. She is very very upset about it. This will be second baby and her first was a girl. She clearly wanted another girl and thought she was having another girl. She is incredibly negative about having a boy.

I haven't ever experienced anything like this before. Not sure what to do. I know her mother well. Would you tell her mother? I'm worried that she is depressed and should see someone.

I notice you all adore your 'wrong gender' children and babies now. I expect you're all quite glad you've fucking grown up, and you didn't put them up for adoption, and your close friends are glad they no longer have to put up with your wallowing, to paraphrase some.

Misdee the only way to stop the 'oh now you've got your boy' witlessness is to have another baby......

I can't explain your feelings tethersend, although I'm sure I read you had quite a compelling reason for wanting a boy, please correct me if I'm wrong.

ShowOfHands..

'It's as common with girls as it is with boys'
Not on MN it's not, definitely not, it's almost exclusively boys..

'Just because you've never experienced it and don't understand it doesn't mean you have any right to mock or deride her for something that's clearly upsetting her'

Yes, I mocked and derided and it was probably a knee jerk reaction to yet another anti-boy thread. That, of course, didn't make it the right reaction.

I do try to understand, really I do, but when it comes to being depressed about the gender of the child that you're carrying, I just wonder what lies ahead of that child and hope that they will be loved, as they deserve to be. It must be a hideous thing to be unwanted because of your gender, the thing that makes you, you. Makes me feel quite angry really.

'Of course you can continue to misunderstand and say insensitive thing but like others say, I do wonder if you say the same thing to other people with forms of depression and anxiety'

I probably will continue to misunderstand and say insensitive things because it truly winds me up. Gender selection is not available in this country, so you know that there is a 50%ish chance of having one of either gender. How can the sex of your child be a shock??

No, I would not say the same thing to other people with other forms of depression and anxiety as they generally don't have a choice as to whether they're depressed or anxious.

If you know you don't want to have a boy/girl, and that if you do you will feel like shit and not want it, then you do have a choice.

berina, i think dh wouild faint if i made mummerings about dc#6

"I can't explain your feelings tethersend, although I'm sure I read you had quite a compelling reason for wanting a boy, please correct me if I'm wrong."

I didn't I'm afraid. I think you must be thinking of someone else.

"No, I would not say the same thing to other people with other forms of depression and anxiety as they generally don't have a choice as to whether they're depressed or anxious."

Articulate, read that sentence again. Twice.

"If you know you don't want to have a boy/girl, and that if you do you will feel like shit and not want it, then you do have a choice."

This statement could just as easily be applied to someone with PND saying she didn't want her baby. Why wouldn't you say this to her? Why not tell her that she should never have had a baby?

I don't mean to target you directly, but you are the only poster who is willing to engage and question their own standpoint- thank you for that.

But that's just it articulate, you don't know you're going to feel like that.
I'd always imagined I would have a boy first, when I got pregnant I thought it was a girl, so why was I disappointed it was a boy? I have no idea, and it's completely unfathomable to me now that he's here.
Now I want another baby I genuinely believe that it doesn't matter what gender it is. But if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant again I can't guarantee how I will feel when I find out the gender. I would find out at 20 weeks again, because I would rather have the time to get my head around it then than after the baby is born, so that I don't waste a second of time with a new baby being anything other than elated!

Actually, people often go into a pregnancy with no thought to gender and suffer gender disappointment nonetheless. The woman this thread is about actually wanted to have a boy once upon a time (this rings a huge alarm bell for me, she's not being rational, she's in the grip of something fickle and changeable and emphtically not her fault).

And it's not almost exclusively boys on MN. I've searched before and linked to countless threads where gender disappointment was suffered by somebody expecting a girl. I can't do it again now as I'm really not very well and need to go to bed but believe me, it does go both ways. You're just in tune with the boys comments. Believe me I have a girl and we suffer the same comments, the same accusations, the same thoughtlessness as mothers of boys. Because some people are just twats. There are great swathes of people who think all men want a son and boys love their Mums more and entire cultures where girls are really not wanted to the point where atrocious things happen. It's not a competition, it really isn't about gender at all.

You're missing the material point. Women who suffer gender disappointment do not have a choice in it. It's not that straightforward and if you can't understand it (you admit you can't) then don't comment so cruelly. As you may see from this very rarely does gender disappointment result in actual disappointed with regards to the child you have.

'This statement could just as easily be applied to someone with PND saying she didn't want her baby. Why wouldn't you say this to her? Why not tell her that she should never have had a baby?;

Great point tethersend!

Ooh I do like a good, rational educated discussion :o

i never told anyone in rl apart from dh how i was feeling. just plastered on a smile and acted happy. i mean, how could i be disappointed for having a baby?? it was irrational.

Tell her to grow up. she should feel lucky that the baby is ok.

I really just want one person to answer my question, so I will repeat it to you, bowlingball:

Would you say the same to a woman who was suffering from PND and said she didn't want her baby?

Articualte, gender disappointment usually has nothing to do with the fact that it is a boy, per se, just that it is not what you had in your mind. To try and make this about your idea that everyone thinks boys are yucky is stupid.

I've already said lower down that I was gutted to find out that DS2 was a boy. Is this because boys are horrid? That is, dare I say it, utter bollocks. I already had a son who I adored, I wanted a daughter. To say that I was disappointed purely because boys are horrible is to say that I hate my first born child.

To further show how nonsensical your perception is, and how irrational gender disappointment is, when I found out my third child was a girl I was gutted that my boy gang was being broken up and WTF as I meant to do with a girl. How does that fit with your blinkered view that this is always about boys?

Nothing about it is rational, the same as with all other forms of emotional upset.

Oh, this thread has kicked off a bit, hasn't it?

I agree, certainly on MN, there is more disappointment about wanting a boy in evidence.

The point that everybody on here who has had the misfortune to have gender disappointment is making, is that it is not rational, beyond their voluntary control, distressing and really difficult to admit to in RL.

I can SO very much understand how somebody could feel like this; not like feeling like this, but be unable to help themselves.
FWIW, after 3 MCs when finally pregnant with what turned out to be a successful pregnancy, I was worried I might be expecting a girl as I had always wanted a big brother myself (I am the eldest) I was really keen on a boy first. Well, for various reasons I had genetic testing (CVS) and it was indeed a boy. And yes, I was delighted (gender elation?? }. If I could have ticked a box for the gender of the next baby, I am very likely to have asked for a girl. When we found out (again very early in the pregnancy) that DC2 was DS2 I had a twinge of disappointment (I think saying good-bye to the idea of a 'well balanced' family) and that was that. Certainly did not stop us - we had 2 more !

What I am trying to say is, nobody is disputing the existence of these feelings whether or not they are spoken out aloud, it is strength of feeling that seems worrying in the case of OP's friend's case (anybody notice that the OP seems to have been scared away btw??). And I for one really think 'get a grip' is not helpful. Or kind.

For goodness sake, people obsess about any number of things: haircolour, threadcount of their bed linen, brand of car they are driving and in all those expample it has more to do with them rather than what colour their hair is etc etc. As somebody said higher up, this is a mental health issue with OP's friend; not anything to do with the baby. Not at this point. The worry would be if mum did not address her problem and the wee boy would have to live with it - that would be very very sad.

Anybody remember that awful program with all these mothers of multiple boys who were moving heaven and earth to 'get' a girl? Saddest thing - for all concerned.

I really hope anybody who feels like this about their unborn child gets the support they need.

I felt shattered and pretty disappointed when I had my sons and utterly elated when I had my daughter. Wrong but true. Partly to do with the birth experiences but the gender preference was real too. Spent the whole of the 1st pregnancy convinced I was carrying twin girls and most of the 2nd pretending to everyone, including myself, that I wasn't hoping for a girl because by then I knew how wonderful boys are and felt guilty at the strength of my yearning for a girl. But I think I've secretly always imagined a daughter because I want to "re-create" the relationship I had with my mother, who died when I was a teenager. My daughter is amazing and funny and 1 and a half. I can't remember being one and a half so can't say whether I've recreated anything. I remember my boy twins being one and a half though and they were amazing and funny too. And they still are aged nearly 12. I absolutely adore them all. My imaginings and yearnings while pregnant haven't made any difference to my relationships with the real children I have.

I will answer your question tethersend:

'Would you say the same to a woman who was suffering from PND and said she didn't want her baby?'

No, I wouldn't.

'I didn't I'm afraid. I think you must be thinking of someone else.'

Apologies, not sure who I was thinking of.

'Articulate, read that sentence again. Twice.'

You're referring to PND here, I'm guessing.

'This statement could just as easily be applied to someone with PND saying she didn't want her baby. Why wouldn't you say this to her? Why not tell her that she should never have had a baby?'

I get what you're saying. I will concede that in certain cases of gender disappointment, the disappointment does not manifest itself until the scan or birth, and therefore could be unforeseen.

My beef is with those who for whatever reason, pre-conception, are fully aware that should the gender not be the one that they hope for, they will be very upset/anxious/depressed. In these cases than I say that, to an extent, they had a choice.

Obviously, no-one with PND could truly foresee that happening, so I definitely would not say the same to them.

ShowOfHands: I will conceed that it goes both ways (grudgingly), if you say you have searched out the relevant threads and have evidence. Maybe I'm not looking for it so I don't see them, being the boy crusader that I am (someone's got to be haven't they? I still feel boys get a raw deal, but that's another thread).

'and if you can't understand it (you admit you can't) then don't comment so cruelly. As you may see from this very rarely does gender disappointment result in actual disappointed with regards to the child you have'.

Yes I have seen that people get over it, on this thread, and that's heartening I admit.

I did comment cruelly, and it was unhelpful to the thread, so I apologise, the adoption comment was OTT. I should probably stay away from these subjects really, they do tend to rile me somewhat.

Sorry to hear you don't feel well SOH.

OK Soupdragon...I've already apologised.

I am blinkered and sensitive when it comes to boys, and I do tend to fight their corner..maybe sometimes too much.

Boys are lovely aren't they articulate!

so are girls

am v v touchey atm as am sick of 'your dh must be so happy to have a boy' comments.

when we had dd3 someone asked him if he was disappointed that she was a girl.

i think a lot of worries stem from peoples attitudes towards us 'wanting' a boy, when we wanted a baby regardless of sex.

when i went to get mw care sorted, the doc said 'oh is it one last try for a boy then'

They are totally lovely ellangirl, I could snuggle mine all day long (or until they complain, usually after about 5 mins!!)

Girls are lovely too Misdee

I was last of several girls and was no secret that dads side wanted a boy. Do I have a lifelong complex - no not at all. I can understand wanting one of the same gender as i would love a girl to share the girly things i love.
I agree that its easy to say get a grip etc but I would guess this woman has simply been honest, ok a little dramatically but still. I would love a girl but find myself saying ' oh i really don't mind' when people ask as it is frowned upon.
Everyone's main concern ( i hope) is a healthy baby regardless of sex but if your lucky enough to never have a preference then fantastic but some people have for various reasons. This doesn't make them a horrible person or say they will be a rubbish parent.

Pacificdogwood I must admit I have been scared away a little. I have been on mumsnet a long time but never expected some of the comments that have appeared on this thread. If anything I was expecting a stream of "don't you dare tell her mother" comments directed at me but certainly not quite so many completely unsympathetic posts. I am more than a little .

I have spoken to her today. She wasn't crying but is still extremely upset, withdrawn and negative, focussing now on the additional cost of buying boy stuff and the fact that her DD wont have a "best friend" or a bridesmaid at her wedding.

I was understanding and mainly listened and tried to gently persuade her that she would love having a boy. Its very difficult to know what to say because I'm sure she'll look back on this and feel horribly guilty for having had these feelings. I'm convinced she isn't well. She certainly wouldn't benefit from being told to get a grip.

I joined not long ago and was quite taken aback after i read a thread which was probably even worse than this one in terms of support.

U seem like a great friend, im sure your friend appreicates you. You have put your feelings aside and tried to see things her way - can't ask for more.

Oops I think one of the AIBU threads got stuck in the Pregnancy section.

Hopefully all those who have realised they're in the wrong place will have pulled up their judgeypants and gone back there by now.

Thanks to all the posters who wrote about their own issues and gave practical and helpful advice to the OP.

The rest of you should be ashamed.

Glad you came back, virgil .

Your poor friend. I think there was quite a lot of v interesting, supportive information on this thread as well, by people who had been thorugh similar themselves.

I really think just listen to her just now and let her find her own way through this.

FWIW, my brother (2 years my junior) and I played together lots and got on really well - my DSs1 and 2 however may well one day accidently murder each other .

She clearly has some problems if she is already focussing on weddings - it sounds to me that her existing daughter is simply more real to her than this new bean IWKWIM.

Having read most of the replies, I wanted to share my story.

I'm suffering from antenatal depression (history of depression and mental illness, so was always a risk) and we found out the gender of our baby last week.

It's a boy, and I have to admit that I was slightly disappointed. I don't know why. There's no logical reason. It's just the way my mind works. I'm trying not to blame myself, but I can't help feeling like a bad person.

When I saw this thread, I thought, 'brilliant, some good advice'. I've always got good advice from others on here when I've posted about my concerns. So when I read those first few responses, I felt absolutely terrible about myself. Like I didn't deserve to be a mum if I felt this way. I have to say that it really didn't help my state of mind.

Anyway, thankfully things are picking up. Every time I show others our scan pics of our little boy, I feel a bit more maternal.

I've always wanted to be a mum, so it upsets me that I can even feel this way. But I accept that this is just the way my mind is wired.

I know that we are extremely lucky to be having a child that, touch wood, is going to be healthy. But what I'm trying to say is that you can't help how you feel.

So, to the OP: please, ignore all the unhelpful (and downright rude) comments that have been posted, and support your friend. My midwife has been fantastic and given me tons of extra appointments as she knows my background and how hard I've found it so far. So, if she hasn't already, please ask your friend to consider opening up to her midwife. She can't get help unless people know she needs it.

As others have said, please don't judge her on her feelings. Be a good friend, however hard you find it with sons of your own.

And thanks to everyone who has posted constructive comments and shared their stories. This thread has (eventually) helped me to feel better about myself and my feelings.