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Original poster

Wow; it's only circumcision..

781 replies

Chloejp91 · 29/12/2010 22:11

Before I get killed, I'm not suggesting it is only circumsion, that's just the title of this thread.

I'm due in less than 4 weeks and I'm having a boy. I'm definitely going to circumcise him. It's part of my culture and my partner's culture so it's going to be done. I just feel sad that it's seen as such a bad thing, where there are some benefits to it.

Anyone circumsised/circumsizing their sons?

OP posts:
KickArseQueen · 06/01/2011 13:21

SVH78 Thu 06-Jan-11 12:23:05
clumsymumluckybaby - Can I suggest that you read the whole thread. The debate has already covered the points raised in your post and has said all that needs to be said on the issue.

SVH78, I have an issue with this post of yours.

Anyone has the right to post on here, it doesn't matter who they are, or what they want to say.

You do not have the right to decide that a person should not contribute or to decide when a thread is ended.

Do you not realise that there have been many, many previous threads about circumcision? Just as there have been about family parking spaces at supermarkets.

As soon as someone starts a new thread, we don't just link to the last one and tell them their opinions have been said before.

I think you like the feeling of control, another poster on this thread requested that you stop "policing" her posts.

Is that why you are circumcising your son? Because you can?

SVH78 · 06/01/2011 13:33

KickArseQueen - well today I have been accused of being subservient and now a control freak! Interesting....

I am just suggesting that people read the thread before asking questions that have already been raised and answered - it is a sensible approach to things!

"we don't just link to the last one and tell them their opinions have been said before" - this is actually not true as I have seen this done a number of times!

Incidently it is ironic that you are raising the issue of policing posts when it could be said that you are doing the same thing here!

Anyway we digress.....

TheFeministParent · 06/01/2011 13:45

Ah.......you're not actually a parent, you've never held your own flesh and blood and so clearly have a very poor understanding of the desire to protect your baby.

It makes so much sense.

SVH78 · 06/01/2011 13:48

TheFeministParent - I'm glad something is finally making sense to you!

HouseOfBamboo · 06/01/2011 13:49

TheFeministParent - that doesn't really make sense though, does it, since it is people who ARE parents who choose to have their children circumcised?

KickArseQueen · 06/01/2011 13:52

this is actually not true as I have seen this done a number of times! - Its considered very rude tho, and bad thread ettiquette. If it was done every time then there would be no discussions on mn, much of the active convos is effectively a rehash of a week last wednesday.

I only ever "police" the people who are telling others what they can or can't say. I could have just reported your post I guess and let mnhq decide.

While I have your attention! I will ask for a 3rd time...

Your source which stated "Equivocal" also states "medically non-therapeautic".

You clearly value this source. Any comment???

SVH78 · 06/01/2011 13:57

KickArse - forgive me for missing the point but what exactly are you asking me to comment on?

TheFeministParent · 06/01/2011 14:05

SVH is arrogant and talking about things (s)he knows nothing about, nothing. Being a parent changes everything.

BadBagel · 06/01/2011 14:23

I have just read this whole thread and what I don't understand about your reason to circumcise your son SVH is why you choose to adhere to this particular part of your religion . You state earlier that you are not a strict religious person because than you and your husband would not have been allowed to marry, yet you are going to circumcise your son because your religion tells you to.

ladysoandso · 06/01/2011 14:44

good point bagel! Wish I had spotted that. If SVH is so relaxed , informed and highly educated, why go along with some old barbaric sacrifice?

SVH78 · 06/01/2011 14:54

ladysoandso - because clearly we do not believe it is an 'old barbaric sacrifice'.

TheFeministParent - there you go again with your personal insults. I really wish you would act in an adult manner. What HouseofBamboo is saying (I think) is that it is parents that choose to circumcise their children and so saying it makes sense to you that non parents argue for circumcision does not make sense, because the people who do as a matter of fact circumcise their children (and therefore believe that it is the correct thing to do) are obviously parents!

QBEE · 06/01/2011 15:15

SVH78 clearly you are a religious/cultural pick and mixer and therefore your ONLY reason for carrying out such an act on your child is not valid.

You cannot hide behind the beliefs of your husband either given that he is lax enough in his faith to have married you.

Culture does not justify the infliction of pain on another life.

SVH78 · 06/01/2011 15:18

QBEE - I accept that it is not valid to you, however, it is valid to us and that is what matters.

Like the issue of circumcision generally - your last sentence is clearly a matter of opinion and what you have stated is simply your opinion (to which you are of course entitled).

I have expressed my thoughts/findings on pain earlier in this thread.

YouCantTeuchThis · 06/01/2011 15:21

I have to agree SVH - you certainly appear to be someone who is not afraid to stand up to religious demands on the individual, and has indeed challenged religious conformity already.

I think this is where I struggle. If you can accept that there are no other overwhelming reasons for doing something (other than the religious) which involves risk and pain for someone other than you, surely you can accept 'our' amazement that you then state religious/cultural reasons as your 'reasons'.

I am sorry if I am way off the mark, but it appears that you are willing to question and stand up to some religious practices/beliefs but on this it is non-negotiable.

I think many other women are in a much less-informed position than you when this decision (assuming they make the decision) is made. I would like to better understand where your belief that it is the 'correct' thing to do comes from.

I don't mean this to come across as aggressive, by the way. I am genuinely intrigued.

YouCantTeuchThis · 06/01/2011 15:22

(or more succinctly: why does that part of your/dh's religion hold respect where others don't?)

QBEE · 06/01/2011 15:34

Apologies SVH I did not make myself clear.

I meant that you appear to be justifying your decision based on religion and yet that same religion was disregarded upon your marriage which points to you being able to execute some choice.
So with that choice that you and your husband have decided to embrace with regards to which parts of the religion and your culture are important to you, what is the actual reasoning behind wanting to go ahead with an unnecessary operation on a newborn who incidently is not given a choice?

SVH78 · 06/01/2011 15:34

YouCant - I do accept your amazement and I agree that I am not afraid to challenge religious conformity.

It is true that we don't conform to all aspects of our religions and that's why I find it particularly annoying when I am accused of being subservient and blindly following the rules etc.

The starting point for us with religious rules is that we follow them unless we can see a good enough reason why we shouldn't.

The issue of circumcision is (or was?!) not a non negotitable for us. We went into making the decision with open minds and have decided to go ahead with the procedure because our religions/cultures advocate it, because my DH (and other family members)have had it done and are glad that they have and because we do not believe that the procedure causes so much pain/distress as to make us want to make a stand by not going ahead. We also do not think that it is torture/abuse etc otherwise we wouldn't be going ahead.

I fully appreciate and understand that many people disagree with the points that I have made above and that people will thnk that there are many many good reasons why we shouldn't go ahead (reasons we have considered) but we have looked into this issue and from our point of view we are content to go ahead.

We fully appreciate that lots of people would have considered all the factors and reached a different decision and won't be able to comprehend our conclusion but I am trying to explain as best as possible why we have decided to go ahead with the circumcision.

SVH78 · 06/01/2011 15:36

QBEE - does my response to YouCant answers your question?

QBEE · 06/01/2011 15:42

"Like the issue of circumcision generally - your last sentence is clearly a matter of opinion and what you have stated is simply your opion"

I am unsure what to make of the fact that you think my opinion of culture not justifying the infliction of pain on another life is seen by you as a matter of opinion.

Do you not agree that harming another is wrong under any guise be it religion, culture or other?
Is there an example you can give me where the infliction of pain on cultural grounds is acceptable to you so I may understand your objection to my sentance please?

SVH78 · 06/01/2011 15:46

QBEE - we do not consider circumcision to be 'harm' or even necessarily infliction of pain (although we fully appreciate that this is not always the case).

QBEE · 06/01/2011 15:52

I was not reffering to circumsicion SVH when I posted my last question, rather I was responding to your difference of opinion on cultural infliction of pain.

Do you not agree that harming another is wrong under any guise be it religion, culture or other?
Is there an example you can give me where the infliction of pain on cultural grounds is acceptable to you so I may understand your objection to my sentance please?

ILoveItWhenYouCallMeBoo · 06/01/2011 15:55

ok i have read through all the posts since i was last here.

SVH i still don't understand your reasons.

clearly you don't see circumcision as necessary for your or your husband's religion otherwise you wouldn't have done the research you have nor balanced up teh pros and cons before making your decision.

so what i don't get is that your are doing something to a child that isn't necessary either medically or for your religion which will cause pain and suffering (of that there is no doubt) and has the potential to cause both physical and psychological problems form that point onwards. there is also the fact that your son may resent you for violating him in this way.

why, when you could wait til he is older, would you do all that for something that isn't necessary?

SVH78 · 06/01/2011 16:05

I do think that harm is wrong - the issue is that we differ on what we consider to be harm.

ILoveIt - I don't expect you to understand my reasons. I am simply trying to explain the reasons upon which our decision is based. We fully accept that there will be many people that do not agree or understand our reasons (which is the case with many beliefs).

I didn't say it wasn't necessary for religious reasons. I said it wasn't a non negotiable for us (not for our religions). Our religions see many things as necessary which we don't follow, it doesn't mean that we don't think that they are necessary, just that we choose not to comply with those 'necessities'.

We disagree on the pain and suffering point - so there is doubt on that point. We believe (from our own experiences and those of our friends/families it can be done with minimal discomfort (although we fully appreciate that people will not agree with this). We have assessed the potential risks and do not see it as a violation. I appreciate that we cannot know how our son will feel but none of the male members of our family or friends have felt this way and that is the basis on which we are proceeding.

GColdtimer · 06/01/2011 16:07

I think the fact you are not blinded by your religion and you are an intelligent woman capable of making her own decisions makes your decision on this particular issue far worse to be honest.

Has anything that has been said to you on this thread made you want to re-evaluate? Will you show it to your DH?

Can I ask what religion you are - I remember you said you are not Jewish.

ILoveItWhenYouCallMeBoo · 06/01/2011 16:12

"it can be done with minimal discomfort"

but why do it if there any disconfort? that is what i don't get. you cannot say that he will feel absoloutely nothing. you know he will feel pain of some degree so why do it at all.

i accept your point that for your religion it is necessary but that you and your DH think it is not non-negotiable. in other words you and your DH personally don't think it is necessary, so again, why do it now? why not wait until your son is older and can decide himself, and so removing teh risk of him resenting you for it.