Page 5 | Nursery forcing us to toilet train DS at 2.5yrs?

GoldenLeaves20 · 2023-05-20T09:50:11+00:00

Anyone else had this? DS is 2.5, and nurses are making all the kids in his class to toilet train. They want all the kids to be out of nappies by July. We are starting this weekend, pants only in the day and sitting on the toilet every 20mins. DS pees and poops in the toilet, he's fine about it. But he has zero idea of when he needs to go. But but but, it's soooo hard and tedious. He's had so many accidents already. Our carpet has been sprayed in lots of places with pet cleaner. I've internally lost my shit 100x this morning and it's only 10:30!! How the fuck do I keep it together AND keep my house sanitary and the sofa, carpet and chairs not ruined by this process????

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itsabigtree · 20/05/2023 19:25

This is a good thing and great for you to have a nudge to do it!

At that age they are not babies and need to be out of nappies... they are expensive and bad for the environment... or a lot of laundry if reusable. And it's so hard changing a toddlers nappy!
They want to feel like little people at this age and they start to realize that others around them arnt in nappies.

Persevere! Keep putting them on the toilet or potty. Read books together about toilet training. Buy him some cook training pants! Let him wee in the bushes in the park. Don't just believe he isn't ready, you'll be so pleased when he's out of nappies! Good luck.

Lilacsbloominspring · 20/05/2023 19:25

Sorry @2bazookas … not being rude but was that an attempt at humour or a side swipe at me?

I don’t mean the ‘confused’ face in a PA way, I genuinely am lost as to what you’re getting at!

Redebs · 20/05/2023 19:27

A large proportion of normal children aren't ready before 3-4.
If a nursery is putting an age limit at 2.5, then it's potentially an Ofsted issue. Seriously.

mathanxiety · 20/05/2023 19:28

@GoldenLeaves20

If you want to feel more in control of the process, with detailed instructions on readiness and how to get through it all, I recommend a book called Toilet Training in Less Than a Day, by Nathan Azrin.

It takes more than a day - there are preliminary readiness / priming activities to do with your child, and you will have to commit to staying home and training all day as long as training lasts.

itsabigtree · 20/05/2023 19:29

Newnamenewname109870 · 20/05/2023 17:21

This is wrong on so many levels. I thought it was illegal! He’s clearly not ready.

Illegal!? Wtf why would it be illegal?

mathanxiety · 20/05/2023 19:30

Lilacsbloominspring · 20/05/2023 19:16

Mine is two and a half next month and nowhere near ready - hasn’t quite managed to work out he needs to pull his trousers down to sit on his potty!

You can take him to the bathroom with you and do a running commentary on what you're doing there, beginning with explaining that you wear underwear, not nappies.

Redebs · 20/05/2023 19:30

Spanielsarepainless · 20/05/2023 18:58

My mother told me that in the olden days (1960s) with fabric nappies, children were toilet-trained by 18 months. Because the nappy actually got wet, it helped the child to cotton on (sorry for pun...) more quickly.

Accidents were easier to mop up in the days before fitted carpets. Lots of kids who are 'toilet trained' just have accidents

mathanxiety · 20/05/2023 19:34

2bazookas · 20/05/2023 19:13

NO child takes themselves off to the toilet until well after potty and toilet training as been established . For at least six months, the work is done by a patient adult, who makes the decision to put the chi;ld on a potty.
once sitting on a potty relaibly triggers a wee or a poo, the adult still has to take all the responaibility for that child staying clean and dry; frequent reminders , frequent visits. (Nursery staff will be going that with the children who wear pants).

The stage where a child, un pronpted, in a the middle of play, thinks to itself "uh oh, I need a wee or poo" and takes themselves off to the toilet and manages all by themselves, comes much much later.

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Not according to the training method I used, which I have recommended to the OP.

The entire premise of the method is that the child's new habit becomes ingrained in the course of training, and he takes full responsibility for responding to his own bodily prompts.

YoucancallmeKAREN · 20/05/2023 19:40

Redebs · 20/05/2023 19:27

A large proportion of normal children aren't ready before 3-4.
If a nursery is putting an age limit at 2.5, then it's potentially an Ofsted issue. Seriously.

Up until the late 90s a child needed to be out of nappies before they could start playgroup therefore 99% were out of nappies by their 3rd birthday. It was then decided by the Government of the day that this wasn't fair and that opened the floodgates (excuse the pun) for children starting school at 5 still in nappies. Now biology hasn't changed in the last 2 decades, so if children were dry by 3 in the 90s, why do you think todays children aren't ready until in some cases they are 4 ? Maybe it's not a change in biology but in change in the behaviour of parents.

woodhill · 20/05/2023 19:47

Yes dgd was potty trained around 2 quite recently

Newnamenewname109870 · 20/05/2023 19:58

Redebs · 20/05/2023 19:27

A large proportion of normal children aren't ready before 3-4.
If a nursery is putting an age limit at 2.5, then it's potentially an Ofsted issue. Seriously.

It really is. It sounds like they’re doing it because they can’t cope. It’s like saying all over 15 month olds need to be walking to be in the toddler room. Personally I’d be complaining.

And all this “in my day..” yes it worked well for some children but it clearly doenst work well for all as they wouldn’t have changed the guidance. Also there ARE still a lot of toileting issues.

Newnamenewname109870 · 20/05/2023 19:59

YoucancallmeKAREN · 20/05/2023 19:40

Up until the late 90s a child needed to be out of nappies before they could start playgroup therefore 99% were out of nappies by their 3rd birthday. It was then decided by the Government of the day that this wasn't fair and that opened the floodgates (excuse the pun) for children starting school at 5 still in nappies. Now biology hasn't changed in the last 2 decades, so if children were dry by 3 in the 90s, why do you think todays children aren't ready until in some cases they are 4 ? Maybe it's not a change in biology but in change in the behaviour of parents.

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But how many five year olds are actually doing this? That’s just scaremongering.

Crumbcatcher · 20/05/2023 20:16

They don't need to be verbal to toilet train. My DD signed and was dry by 2.

Britinme · 20/05/2023 20:30

I do think it's up to parental expectations, time and perseverance. Yes, at first it's the parent encouraging/bribing the child to sit on the potty for short periods (I used to read to my oldest, which he loved) and then it's child telling parent he needs to go, then it's child taking themselves. It all takes time. All the stuff that some pp have said about dire things happening to children of previous generations is not what I observed (mine were potty trained in the 80s at ages between 2 and 3). What I think is different now is that far more mums are working full time when their children are that age than they were then, and I think that makes it harder.

honeybunsleo · 20/05/2023 20:34

My only advice I can give and I did a lot of reading on this, is to go a few days bare on the bottom.
I took a week off work and I did about 3-4 days just in the house with nothing on the bottom, I read somewhere it was good to get your child used to the feeling of not having a nappy and starting from there so that's what we did. By day 2 there were very few accidents.
I introduced pants when I felt like he was comfortable on the potty, we picked some toy story ones because that's what he loved at the time. When we went out I was constantly checking if he needed the toilet and taking him anyways just in case, there were accidents don't get me wrong, but by two weeks he was completely dry

Original poster

GoldenLeaves20 · 20/05/2023 23:11

I appreciate the advice and book / author recommendations.

I sort of feel like I want to address a bunch of points and correct posters who didn't read my replies but I'm exhausted and can't be bothered.

I'll say this though: DS isn't traumatised. He's fine with sitting on the toilet. I take him every 20min but he had some accidents and that's OKAY. I expected that but none of you can say it's a fun and rewarding part of motherhood to clean up urine from carpets.

OP posts:

Milkand2sugarsplease · 20/05/2023 23:25

Potty training is hard when they're not ready and is just a process that leads to upset for both of you.

In order for readiness to toilet train (and it's not really training if you do it when they're ready) they have to go through the stage of knowing when they HAVE weed and pood. Only then can they then learn about the sensation of NEEDING to wee and poo and when that happens you can then look to them doing it in the potty/toilet instead of a nappy.

Tell nursery it's not their decision, and you will let them know when you believe he's ready to go for it.

ChildcarePanic · 20/05/2023 23:41

Newnamenewname109870 · 20/05/2023 19:59

But how many five year olds are actually doing this? That’s just scaremongering.

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Agree. I'm part of lots of groups where dozens of 4 year olds attend and every single one bar one who has SEN is potty trained

ATerrorofLeftovers · 20/05/2023 23:50

Goldbar · 20/05/2023 11:25

Potty training can be a stressful nightmare or it can be fairly easy. Imo it often comes down to whether you wait until they are developmentally ready. I waited with DC1 until they'd turned 3 and it was really very straightforward. Very low stress for both us and DC1. Some children will be ready earlier, some won't, but I certainly wouldn't be allowing nursery to dictate something like this which is inevitably going to put stress on your DC if it doesn't go well.

Absolutely agree with this. You can force them before they’re ready and it’s a nightmare all round, or you can wait until they’re ready and it’s quick and easy. We tried with DD t 2.5 and she was game but clearly not getting it. Waited 3 months and tried again and she literally got it in a day. We only had a very few sporadic accidents if she was deliberately waiting to go from not wanting to stop what she was doing.

If you’re not happy with the timeframe just tell nursery it’s not happening until you decide.

ATerrorofLeftovers · 20/05/2023 23:59

2bazookas · 20/05/2023 19:13

NO child takes themselves off to the toilet until well after potty and toilet training as been established . For at least six months, the work is done by a patient adult, who makes the decision to put the chi;ld on a potty.
once sitting on a potty relaibly triggers a wee or a poo, the adult still has to take all the responaibility for that child staying clean and dry; frequent reminders , frequent visits. (Nursery staff will be going that with the children who wear pants).

The stage where a child, un pronpted, in a the middle of play, thinks to itself "uh oh, I need a wee or poo" and takes themselves off to the toilet and manages all by themselves, comes much much later.

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Gosh, 6 months?? Not anywhere near as long in my experience. With DD she got training in a day pretty much. It was a mixed bag of asking to go/us spotting her dancing or clutching herself and telling her to go to the loo for a few weeks, but nothing like 6 months.

We waited till she was ready though - we tried at 2.5, but she wasn’t getting it, so we stopped and waited 3 months to try again. Then it was super quick and pretty painless for all concerned. I didn’t see the point of forcing it when it was going to be such a slog, when we could wait a while and it be much easier all round.

jannier · 21/05/2023 00:17

2bazookas · 20/05/2023 19:13

NO child takes themselves off to the toilet until well after potty and toilet training as been established . For at least six months, the work is done by a patient adult, who makes the decision to put the chi;ld on a potty.
once sitting on a potty relaibly triggers a wee or a poo, the adult still has to take all the responaibility for that child staying clean and dry; frequent reminders , frequent visits. (Nursery staff will be going that with the children who wear pants).

The stage where a child, un pronpted, in a the middle of play, thinks to itself "uh oh, I need a wee or poo" and takes themselves off to the toilet and manages all by themselves, comes much much later.

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That's rubbish I've potty trained countless children over 29 years if a child is truly ready they are reasonably dry in a week and taking themselves for wees inside a month any potty training that lasts months is because the child was not ready

jannier · 21/05/2023 00:21

2bazookas · 20/05/2023 19:20

You're talking sheer fantasy.

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Of course how many children have you trained? I've been in childcare for 30 years this year I've trained 3 children so say the average is 2 a year. Did you experience school in the 60s and 70s? Which bit is fantasy?

jannier · 21/05/2023 00:26

GoldenLeaves20 · 20/05/2023 23:11

I appreciate the advice and book / author recommendations.

I sort of feel like I want to address a bunch of points and correct posters who didn't read my replies but I'm exhausted and can't be bothered.

I'll say this though: DS isn't traumatised. He's fine with sitting on the toilet. I take him every 20min but he had some accidents and that's OKAY. I expected that but none of you can say it's a fun and rewarding part of motherhood to clean up urine from carpets.

He should not need to go every 20 mins encouraging him too often means he doesn't feel the need to go so doesn't learn the sensation and he develops a small bladder capacity if he's just weed he should be dry for an hour if he's physically ready.
Oh crap lives up to its name ERIC is a well recognised continence charity supported by medical opinions as is the NHS not a mum who trained her own and thought I can sell this

jannier · 21/05/2023 00:28

Crumbcatcher · 20/05/2023 20:16

They don't need to be verbal to toilet train. My DD signed and was dry by 2.

The definition is able to communicate the need that includes signing or deaf people would all be in nappies

jannier · 21/05/2023 00:34

YoucancallmeKAREN · 20/05/2023 19:40

Up until the late 90s a child needed to be out of nappies before they could start playgroup therefore 99% were out of nappies by their 3rd birthday. It was then decided by the Government of the day that this wasn't fair and that opened the floodgates (excuse the pun) for children starting school at 5 still in nappies. Now biology hasn't changed in the last 2 decades, so if children were dry by 3 in the 90s, why do you think todays children aren't ready until in some cases they are 4 ? Maybe it's not a change in biology but in change in the behaviour of parents.

Show quote history

Children in the 90s didn't start nursery until aged 4. The 2 hour playgroup was 3 if they were dry many started at 40 months.
The 5 year olds in nappies is down to parenting with parents saying that's schools job but there is a very big developmental change between 30 months and 60 months .....and of course how old were these 5 year olds in lock down when parents were isolated at home no advice and trying to work alongside care for children?